N Board Forum - Expanded Thread Page

Subject: Starter Issue

[Back] [Return to Top of Forum]

TarHeel Dick    Posted 09-22-2017 at 12:00:34 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Starter Issue
  • Background - 52 8N with 6 volt system, tractor restored but in dry storage for several year. Battery test at 6.35 volts. When starter button pushed, get a noise that almost sounds like something arching. Removed starter and took it to have checked; result starter good, cleaned and said that problem may have been not having good grounding so cleaned areas that ground. Installed starter on tractor again but still will not engage and start. I believe that the first time I tried, it did engage very briefly. Checked and get 6.35 volts to starter. I know I have the option to remove the starter again and do a bench test but as most know, it is not always easy to reinstall. Can I bench test starter on the tractor and if so, how. How can I test the solenoid. Is it possible the starter does not have sufficient strength to spin the engine.

    Sorry for the posting length but I wanted to provide all the info I had. Any suggestions?

    Gaspump    Posted 09-23-2017 at 17:44:24 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Starter Issue
  • Going to throw one more in the mix. Just had a problem with my 960 starter. It had been starting normally but occasionally failed to turn, had to bump the switch several times till it caught. Then Thursday it quit all together. Needed it badly but no go. It would click the solenoid in but not turn. Next I hung on to the post and wire connection, pushed the start button and the connection quickly got hot, sign of a short. I first removed the starter brush cover and on close examination the armature was tight against the brush holder and shorting. Too much end play so off with the starter to go to the repair shop. I likely could have repaired it but so far as I can recall we have never had the starter off since the tractor was new, it deserves a good refreshing!

    Tar Heel Dick    Posted 09-24-2017 at 13:06:40 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Starter Issue
  • Ok....a big thanks to all you guys that provided clues about how to solve my problem. I learned a lot from the comments including I didn't know as much as I might have thought!

    The simple answer is battery. It has been in the tractor for several years but not connected, It had registered 6+ volts...,but said nothing about amps. I used my 12 volt jump pack to test the starter first directly and then through the solenoid. The starter responded both times. So for me, I will get a replacement battery on Monday.

    I learned to drive a tractor on this 8N when it was new....many many years ago. Together with my uncle/grandfather 's Jubilee, they have given me a lot enjoyment restoring and troubleshooting over the years. The Jubilee has a very rare Sherman creeper transmission that still comes in handy from time to time. We used it in the 50's to set plants behind it with a 3 point transplanter. Using the furrow beds to guide the front wheels and a home made hand cable clutch from the planter to the tractor, two people could do the work of three. These tractors were themselves p transplanted from NJ to NC about 18 years ago. Thanks to all again.

    Rustyal    Posted 09-23-2017 at 21:42:18 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Starter Issue
  • It is much easier for the repair shop to fix. They have the parts.

    steveVa    Posted 09-23-2017 at 13:17:53 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Starter Issue
  • My vote is still for the solenoid. Especially if the tractor has been sitting. Solenoid is probably just stuck. Charge battery, press starter button, and wack the solenoid with a wooden mallet or a big stick. If that don't work jump the solenoid with a jumper cable or a screwdriver. You won't hurt anything.

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 09-23-2017 at 07:37:57 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Starter Issue
  • How old is your battery? Does the starter just 'click' when you depress the starter button? If so, it may be a bad battery as mentioned. A battery must withstand a charge UNDRER LOAD and a starter/alternator shop and some auto parts stores will test for you. It is usually a free service, fast, simple, and they have the proper test equipment. It isn't the voltage you need when starting, it's the amperage. 6 volts can be obtained by connecting 4 'D'-Cell batteries, or 4 AA batteries, or 4 AAA batteries, or use a single 6-volt dry cell lantern battery but none have the amount of AMPS needed to fire the starter and crank over the engine. Have you tried to jump start with your car or truck 12-volt battery? If so and it fires up/turns over, then it's a 99.98% chance your battery is junk. See TIP #43 from Bruce(VA)'s 75 Tips list...jump starting requires extreme safety awareness to do it right.


    Tim Daley(MI)

    Jack - Iowa    Posted 09-23-2017 at 07:52:01 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Starter Issue
  • I do not recommend jumping a 6 volt system with a 12 volt. Batteries do not last long with the end blown out of them.

    My experience!

    Jack

    Bruce (VA)    Posted 09-23-2017 at 08:01:41 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Starter Issue
  • That can happen if you jump directly to the battery. See tip # 43 for how to do it safely. You can also blow up a battery with a charger; see tip # 60.

    Jack - Iowa    Posted 09-23-2017 at 08:23:46 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Starter Issue
  • This was not at the last connection which I suspect is what you are thinking. Last connection was at the tractor.

    I was feeding about 40 feet over snow with too small wire. Did not get the 8N started. Drove the car about 400 miles and the next morning it would not start! End of battery blown out.

    75 years of starting engines and never saw anything like it again.

    Jack

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 09-23-2017 at 17:52:20 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Starter Issue
  • It doesn't matter which connection was made last or first, it is a matter of basic physics. You can't jump a 6-volt battery DIRECTLY from a 12 volt battery without serious damage to one or both. The method outline din Bruce's Tip #43 describe show to safely jump the starter on a 6-volt system from a 12-volt source. Think of it like this. Take a 12 volt battery and connect a 6-volt lamp. What do you think will happen? You'll let the smoke out of the 6-volt bulb.

    Tim Daley(MI)

    Jack - Iowa    Posted 09-23-2017 at 18:50:33 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Starter Issue
  • I am well aware of that! Did you not read I was using undersized wire in hopes of charging the tractor battery. Apparently it was not undersized enough.

    Ancient history!

    r geiger    Posted 09-23-2017 at 18:12:42 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Starter Issue
  • A 6 volt starter will work for years using a 12 volt battery. a starter is not a light bulb.

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 09-24-2017 at 08:42:02 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Starter Issue
  • Yeah, I know, I didn't say that RG...I said it was like trying to illuminate a 6-volt lamp with a 12 volt battery. That was my illustrated example point. Jack had tried to jump directly from a 12 volt battery to a 6 volt battery. Neither had anything to do with the starter in the mix. I've worked on many N's with the 6 volt starter and a 12 volt battery. Starters don't care about the voltage...your generator and VR does.

    Tim Daley(MI)

    steveVa    Posted 09-22-2017 at 17:23:25 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Starter Issue
  • Could be the solenoid or the connections to it. I would just jump the solenoid and see if that works.

    Farmer Dan    Posted 09-22-2017 at 15:10:39 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Starter Issue
  • You said the starter has a clean good ground. Does everything else? Battery won't work good if not grounded good.

    Bruce(VA)    Posted 09-22-2017 at 14:58:08 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Starter Issue
  • " Battery test at 6.35 volts."

    A voltage test will tell you if you have a bad battery.......but not if you have a good battery.

    You can do a voltage drop test yourself. Or you can use a hydrometer (tip # 49) or a load tester if you have one.

    Or take it to an auto parts store for a free load test.

    Rustal    Posted 09-22-2017 at 14:16:40 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Starter Issue
  • You can test it on the tractor. Make sure it is not in gear. And touch the battery cable directly to the starter. That's Gona tell you all you need to know.

    JMOR    Posted 09-22-2017 at 13:19:52 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Starter Issue
  • My bet is on a bad battery.....measure battery voltage while holding start button on.

    [Back] [Return to Top of Forum]


    Top