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Subject: starter flywheel problem.

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Tinkerer60    Posted 09-25-2017 at 12:42:31 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • starter flywheel problem.
  • Greetings,
    This is also about the wonderful world of Ford 8n owning. I started working on up until that time an incredibly reliable ford 8n 1950 with a front end loader. I have had a year of learning the hard way about 8n repair. In fixing one thing another would break. Sometimes age and sometimes my blundering. I purchased a IT manual and another manual with a picture of the 8n on it. I have purchased starters bendix and carburetor from Ebay. I'm on my third bendix. I have inspected my flywheel for damage and have not found any missing teeth and it does not look terribly worn. At least not enough to cause a slippage that would in turn break a spindle on the Bendix. Yet the tractor will turn over a few times. Once it tries to start the next time I try and start it I get a whining free gear sound. By manually turning the flywheel a few times ( increments of moving a few teeth nothing more using a screwdriver and the timing plate hole.) it will turn over again each time I do this it gets harder to get it to engage the starter; until It will engage no more. I have had to replace the distributor gear and everything else on this 12 volt system. In addition, to fuel lines and a new carb. Being a front end loader splitting this tractor will be a very involved process. In addition, I cannot find in the manuals the steps in replacing or getting to the flywheel. Nor can I find any info on the front loader taking it apart. I don't want to go the route on this learn as you go. I'm hoping someone might have another idea before I take apart the hydraulic system and split the tractor. Like do I really need to do that? I'm a one man repair, Friends that would help me with this are far away. Also, parts, are the Ithink their labeled Thecho or something like that after market parts any good? Is that why I'm loosing so many Bendix? Thanks for reading all of this.

    Rustyal    Posted 09-26-2017 at 07:42:25 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: starter flywheel problem.
  • The free spin sound problem is the bendix spinning. I have a tractor that does that. Not sure what causes that. But it is probably the bendix gear skipping along the top of the flywheel gear. Or the bendix gear not engaging the flywheel gear.

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 09-25-2017 at 17:10:13 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: starter flywheel problem.
  • The I&T F-04 Manual is a must. A MPC (Master Parts Catalog), Operator's Manual, and DC Parts Manual are also needed in your library. The lime-green 8N Service Manual for Dealers & mechanics is pretty good as well with a few major R&R areas detailed and a complete technical list in the back. It only covers the 48 and 49 early 8N though. Just because a manual a has a 'picture' of an 8N on it doesn't mean it is. Many aftermarket companies copy pages from some of the originals and reprint. Now, based on your statements, I would think your issues are related to this 12-volt conversion you have, probably bad wiring and/or incorrect components -i.e. alternator. One thing at a time though. I concur with Bruce on buying new parts off ebay -don't. Used parts are OK as they can be rebuilt over and over -that's the way they were engineered. Any new part can be bought at Just8Ns or Carpenter or Steiners or a few others -they are usually the same supplier. You can also get reprints of the original manuals there too. Is your 1950 8N early with the front mount distributor or later with the angle-mount? Starter nowadays have the newer type Bendix drives on them -is that what you have? Your flywheel will stop in two places when engine shut down, 180 apart, one or the other. I'd stop right now trying to spin the flywheel/ringgear with a screwdriver before your really do start breaking gear teeth off. You can search the archives here for more info on the Bendix drives. Then determine you have the correct parts installed for your model year. Do not just start tossing all new parts into the mix like new carbs, and such. You need to define the true root cause before any parts are bought, if any are really needed at all. Start by going to JMOR's WIRING PICTOGRAMS -SEE LINK - and scroll down til you find your setup. he shows all the CORRECT ways to wire these old N's 6 volt or 12 volt so download a copy, take it to your shop and scrutinize it closely. Do not deviate from it whatsoever.

    FORD 8N ESSENTIAL MANUALS:

    Tim Daley(MI)

    Tinkerer60    Posted 09-27-2017 at 11:49:50 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: starter flywheel problem.
  • I've got the tractor wired up correctly. Everything is ready to be fine tuned once I get this starter problem fixed. Yes it's a side mount, which I have heard is better to have than the front. At least it is easier to get to. 12 volt, side mount distri. front loader. Bendix when I purchased the tractor was an after market bendix. I've been buying 9 tooth bendix. Is there another? I've not seen any other choices. I've seen earlier bendix starters on Ebay. Should I get one of those and have it rebuilt? It doesn't look that hard to rebuild are there OEM rebuild kits for them or is it simpler to just have it rebuilt. The new after markets don't seem (to me) to work the same way as the old ones. Do the old ones fit the new starters, holes lining up and all? Or will I need to get an old starter also and rebuild it? I was hoping to get this done this summer. Looks like I have a winter project to work on. Weather permitting. When I was a kid on the farm we had an IH cub tractor with a crank starter. I've seen cranks offered for these tractors, are they available. It could at least help me get things ready around here for the winter.

    Thank you for all of the useful information.
    Tinkerer60

    Tinkerer60    Posted 09-27-2017 at 11:30:00 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: starter flywheel problem.
  • Thanks for the pics of the best manuals.
    Tinkerer60

    mhb@ufe    Posted 09-25-2017 at 15:20:19 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: starter flywheel problem.
  • It sure sounds like you have a bad ring gear to me. When you shut the engine off the flywheel will stop very close to one of two locations every time do to pistons coming up on compression as it is winding down. Turning the engine manually gets it away from the worn teeth. When checking the ring gear teeth you need it to be in one of those two locations and check the back side of the ring gear teeth as that is where they will wear.

    Mark

    Bruce (VA)    Posted 09-25-2017 at 13:06:02 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: starter flywheel problem.
  • " . I have purchased starters bendix and carburetor from Ebay. I'm on my third Bendix"

    You have two problems here.

    First off, you are buying new parts when yours can be rebuilt. Ive been working on old cars, trucks & tractors now for over 50 years. Whenever possible, I get OEM component parts rebuilt. Given the high probability that any new component part purchased for an N tractor is made somewhere overseas w/o adequate quality control, chances are very good that you will be disappointed. If you do not have a local rebuild shop, give these guys a call for a quote & shipping info:

    Automotive Manufacturers Inc
    2400 N Lombardy St Richmond, VA 23220
    (804) 321-6861

    They do mail order work. They rebuild carbs, clutches, pressure plates, water pumps, alternators, generators, starters & reline brakes.

    Your next problem is buying parts off of eBay. Try Just8N's or Dennis Carpenter for new parts if what you have can not be rebuilt.

    As to the flywheel, just look up 'clutch replacement ' in your I&T FO4 manual (see tip # 39) Once you get the clutch and p/p off, 4 bolts hold the flywheel on to the crankshaft.

    I understand about the loader......so just rebuild everything while you are in there.

    See tips 12 & 59 before you split it.

    Check the ring gear & replace it if need be.

    Have the flywheel resurfaced.

    I'd have the clutch & p/p rebuilt. And I'd replace the t/o & pilot bearings & front transmission seal while I was in there.

    Use the main shaft as your clutch alignment tool.


    Tinkerer60    Posted 09-27-2017 at 11:36:24 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: starter flywheel problem.
  • Thank you for the information. Wish I would of known about this site a year ago.

    Tinkerer60    Posted 09-25-2017 at 15:02:47 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: starter flywheel problem.
  • Thanks for the heads up., Unfortunately the Bendix that came with the tractor was not OEM. I have rebuilt what I could by myself, distr gear, carb, (not successfully ) wiring and the 12 volt conversion that was not done correctly. If you have a place that actually carries OEM parts; would like to know them. It seems all after market come from China, and I agree the quality control can be lacking. Which brings me to my original question. Could it be the after market parts that are the problem and not the flywheel? Just being very hopeful, only can see flywheel through starter and timing holes and it looks okay. Why would it engage the starter if I move it as little as I'm doing and then stop altogether? Am I just projecting hopeless optimism about the flywheel? Again thank you for your time and info.

    Tinkerer60    Posted 09-27-2017 at 11:28:00 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: starter flywheel problem.
  • Thank you one and all for your response and positive input. It has been said that I should find the problem before I start throwing parts at the proble. Let me make one thing embarrassingly clear. This is my first tractor I have ever worked on. That said and not knowing at the start I could get a manual for it from the net...well let's say there was a learning curve. The carb replacement was when I thought it would be okay to blow air through the carb using my air compressor. The carb started just leaking like crazy after that. I purchased a rebuild kit. However, I could find no pictures of the delicate inside gaskets for the fittings. So I was not successful in rebuilding the carb thus a new one. First starter replacement was because I didn't know the bendix could be changed without buying a new starter. I replaced the coil, points plugs and all of the wiring. This was because the gear in the distributor was broken. I was really not expecting that. However, I thought this would be a great time to update the ignition wiring. So, as you can see most of the problems over the last year has been because of my blundering around. My tractor is a 1950 side mounted dist. with a 12 volt conversion and a front loader.

    Again thank you all for your interest in helping me continue to get what was a really dependable tractor (Until I the bonehead started wrenching on it under my shade tree) running again.
    Tinkerer60

    R Geiger    Posted 09-25-2017 at 15:39:21 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: starter flywheel problem.
  • I am running two after market bendix gears that I got from yt. one 6 years the other about 10. i would say it is not your bendix. maybe ring gear maybe bent start shaft?

    Tinkerer60    Posted 09-27-2017 at 11:38:17 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: starter flywheel problem.
  • I'm probably just reaching for straws. Hoping I don't have to take apart the front loader to split the tractor to replace the ring gear.

    JMOR    Posted 09-25-2017 at 16:42:51 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: starter flywheel problem.
  • Did you rotate flywheel a full revolution such that you could examine ALL teeth through starter mounting hole?

    Tinkerer60    Posted 09-27-2017 at 11:31:56 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: starter flywheel problem.
  • Embarrassingly no. I'll try that today when I take out the latest caualty bendix.

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