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Subject: 2n cooling issue

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Steve Frysinger    Posted 11-04-2017 at 15:44:48 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • 2n cooling issue
  • Latest adventure: my 2n starting steaming pretty heavily in the field, and by the time I got back to the shop it was running poorly - it even dieseled a bit when I shut it down.

    Coolant is just above the fins, radiator is clear of debris, belt has good tension and the water pump spins well when running. The oil level is in mid-range. But the bottom hose is cold to the touch!

    I removed the top hose, and found there was no thermostat (though the hose did have a soft spot that was bulged inward). So I installed a new top hose, with a new thermostat, pointy end toward the radiator, about 4" from the block.

    Started the tractor up, and it idled well for bit but then started steaming again. And the bottom hose is still cold to the touch.

    Before I suspect the water pump (even though it's not leaking or squeaking) I suppose I should I try flushing the system in case it's just plugged with gunk? Can someone point me to a clear procedure for that? I've seen several discussions on-line but I must be dense, because I don't see how any of them put water through the block.

    Thanks!
    Steve

    Tony    Posted 11-05-2017 at 13:15:08 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 2n cooling issue
  • CORRECTION:

    FleetGuard is the heavy duty cleaner. $27/ gallon. Works exceptionally well

    tony    Posted 11-05-2017 at 11:46:24 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 2n cooling issue
  • No stat, no flow through the radiator. It's plugged.

    It is possible that the water pump were bad, impeller free of the shaft but if the machine were mine I would do the following.

    Quick check: You did the first check. If feel around the edges. For some unknown reason to me the center is the last to plug. If more than a third of the radiator is plugged (cold)probably best to replace it. I've seen them online for $130. FOr an occasional use machine you aren't making a living with one of the inexpensive ones will be fine. For a working revenue producing machine, Modine, Harrison, Behr-Nissin, Ford/New Holland would be my choice.

    So.... on with the test. Lower hose port plugged,top hose plugged, fill the radiator, pull the plug off the bottom hose, watch the flow.

    The modern AutoZone, etc "flushes" aren't. FLeetpride makes a very strong flush but is expensive and only comes in gallons. Additionally.... it will find weak spots in the metal creating pin holes.

    Unless it has been recored or replaced with an aluminum core you can use Draino, Liquid Plumber, Red Devil lye or a 50/50 mixture of Muriatic acid. Be careful with that stuff, wear rubber gloves and face shield. Probably not the best idea to wear your newest pair of Levis either.

    Add one of the above and let the machine run for a short time to get everything warmed and stirred up. Drain from the lower hose NOT the drain cock. Run a strong solution of baking soda/water through, drain and flush with clean water followed by your choice of anti freeze. You might want to keep a couple of tubes of Silver Seal or similar to seal the pin holes the cleaning will create.

    Dispose of the drippings responsibly, yada,yada, yada.

    All this being said might be best off recoring or buying a new one.

    Finally it is a good idea to drill a .125" hole in the thermostat if it doesn't have a wiggler in it to avoid getting it air bound over heating the engine and having a coolant fountain when you remove the cap. Or.... you can run it with the cap off and let it burp itself.

    t

    Steve Frysinger    Posted 11-05-2017 at 12:07:31 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 2n cooling issue
  • Thanks - next step will be a radiator flush! I'm hoping to avoid pulling the radiator (did that years ago, and apart from being no fun, the replacement didn't fit, so I ended up soldering the old one).
    Steve

    Bruce (VA)    Posted 11-04-2017 at 21:32:29 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 2n cooling issue
  • The most common reason for an N to ďover heatĒ is over filling the radiator. Only add enough fluid to cover the core. (check out tip # 24, below as well as tips 25 & 35) It is not actually over heating; it is just spewing out the excess water.

    If the radiator is not overfilled, check for low coolant, a loose fan belt, debris in the radiator fins or a stuck thermostat. A bad water pump will usually squeak or leak. (If you ever have a water pump start leaking or making noise, replace it immediately. A N water pump will come apart & launch the fan into the radiator.) And, unless you have a new/rebuilt water pump from a reputable source, it could have impeller erosion. The pump will turn, it wonít leak, but it isnít circulating water.

    In order to have a stuck thermostat, you need to have one installed. Squeeze the top hose; if it has a t-stat, you can feel it. Sometimes (rarely) the t-stat can migrate in the hose & get stuck closed. Or, in an attempt to keep that from happening, some owners will put a third clamp on the hose & tighten it too much resulting in a stuck t-stat. The OEM top hose came w/ a non-adjustable ban to keep the t-stat in place.

    The fan belt should have 1/2" of flex at the mid-point; no more, no less.

    Unless you have a pusher fan, blowing out the radiator from the engine side is always a good idea.

    If none of that works, you may need to flush the radiator & block.

    Get a can/bottle of cleaner from the parts store.

    Remove the t-stat from the top hose. Reconnect the hose.

    Pour the cleaner in the radiator & run the tractor to operating temp.

    Then, remove the bottom hose from the radiator, stuff a rag in the bottom radiator hose connection, & stick your garden hose in the top of the radiator. Turn the water on (reverse flush) & the water will flow into the radiator, then the block & out of the disconnected lower hose. Let it run until the water is clear. Then, check the radiator flow. Stick the hose in the top of the radiator; the water should flow out of the bottom w/o backing up in the filler neck. It should flow at 19.5 gallons a minute. Donít forget to put the t-stat back in correctly!

    Use 50/50 anti-freeze & distilled water as your coolant. The anti-freeze contains rust inhibitors, pump lubricant & raises the boiling point of the coolant.

    If you do need to get the radiator re-cored, make sure you get the flat fin industrial core. Automotive style cores will clog up w/ debris very quickly.

    Steve Frysinger    Posted 11-05-2017 at 12:09:17 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 2n cooling issue
  • Thanks for the complete overview! I've done the first bit, so the next step will be a radiator flush. Fingers crossed, and thanks all for your input!
    Steve

    clayton ingmire    Posted 11-04-2017 at 18:22:21 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 2n cooling issue
  • I have also heard of the impeller inside the pump spinning on the shaft not moving any water

    36 coupe    Posted 11-06-2017 at 08:25:24 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 2n cooling issue
  • Had a 64 Rambler water pump with a cracked plastic impeller,Bought the car for 25 bucks.It would over heat 10 minutes after starting.Have seen cast iron impellers rusted away.In any case the radiator needs shop cleaning.

    Steve Frysinger    Posted 11-04-2017 at 18:27:54 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 2n cooling issue
  • I wondered about something like that, but it seems like at least some hot water would have made it into the lower hose by gravity. But if flushing the radiator doesn't work...
    Thanks!
    Steve

    Bruce(OR)    Posted 11-04-2017 at 18:08:24 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 2n cooling issue
  • Thermostats are a restriction in the cooling system which slows the coolant flow through the engine down. The purpose of that is to allow the coolant to have enough time inside the engine for heat absorption. Then it passes into the radiator and air flow cools it before returning to the engine. Thermostats also maintain engine operating temperature and reduce the build up of oil sludge/gunk in the engine.
    Your immediate steaming might indicate a plugged radiator.

    Steve Frysingerf    Posted 11-04-2017 at 18:14:39 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 2n cooling issue
  • Okay, makes sense. Does the water flow into the top or the bottom of the radiator? From what you said I'm guessing the top, which would explain hot water making it to the top of the radiator without the bottom hose ever warming up. So it sounds like my next step should be to flush the radiator (through the bottom hose) to make sure that pathway is clear.

    Thanks!
    Steve

    Bruce(OR)    Posted 11-04-2017 at 18:44:11 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 2n cooling issue
  • Water flows into the top of the rad and is sucked in the lower hose. Another import trick on stats is to drill a small (1/16) hole in the flange allowing any trapped air behind the stat to escape and not create a air bubble. This allows the stat to open easier without a temp surge to get it done. Reduces thermal shocks to the system as well.

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 11-04-2017 at 16:10:42 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 2n cooling issue
  • Thermostat -pointed end goes towards radiator.


    TPD

    Steve Frysinger    Posted 11-04-2017 at 16:50:57 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 2n cooling issue
  • Thatís what I thought. In any case the problem presented itself when there was no thermostat installed.
    Steve

    Charles (N.C.)    Posted 11-04-2017 at 15:57:10 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 2n cooling issue
  • Steve,,the pointed end with the wires should be about 3in. from the block.Sounds as if you have the thermostate backwards.Also put a plastic tie around the hose where the thermostate is so it won't move.

    Charles (N.C.)    Posted 11-04-2017 at 17:42:42 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • OOOPS !
  • I yield to the professionals.Sorry.

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