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Subject: My 8N Tractor In AD

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Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 11-15-2017 at 07:06:10 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • My 8N Tractor In AD
  • I was flipping thru the latest issue of The N-News last night and came across on Page 28 an AD for Stevens Tractor. It hit me because they are using a photo of my restored early 8N in the AD. Although I was a bit flattered, don't you think they should have contacted me first and asked for my permission? I find it ironic too because years ago, before we began this NTC site, YTMAG was the popular web site and Stevens was/is one of their sponsors/part suppliers. I had ordered a part from them and they sent me the wrong one yet would not replace it, exchange nor refund my money. I never went back and shortly after discovered Just8Ns and Dennis Carpenter.

    Tim Daley(MI)

    SelectOSpeed    Posted 11-15-2017 at 20:05:35 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: My 8N Tractor In AD
  • Tim, do a search for Ford 8N tractor on Google Images. If you find it there, it is within the realm of possibility they downloaded it from there. Anyway, congrats for having your tractor in the Spotlight. SoS.

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 11-16-2017 at 05:58:36 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: My 8N Tractor In AD
  • The copyright laws have changed since the advent of the Internet, but they still apply, contrary to what most people think. Most books have a notation stating that "No part of this book may be reproduced without permission from the publisher". DVD's and CD's/albums/tapes all carry a similar message. The problem is people think once it shows up on the Internet, it is in the public domain and free to use as one likes. Years ago I once found a Dearborn Manual on ebay being sold by some 'seller'. It caught my eye because there was hand written note on the cover in pencil by some previous owner. That's mine I said! The manual was one I had posted here in our MANUALS library and was now my property. When I contacted the 'seller' he just told me he found it on the Internet and thus was free to use and that I should just go and have sex with my mother. I filed a complaint with ebay but never heard a peep from them. Copyrights are good for 35 years then they expire but can be renewed. I don't mind sharing info for others to benefit from, but when used to gain profit, that's when I have problem. I did hear back from the folks at Stevens and they said their tech department found the picture on the Internet and di not see a copyright or watermark on it nor any other info. They are going redo the ad and add my name, tractor model and such, in the future. That's fine, but I won't hold my breath.

    Tim Daley(MI)

    SelectOSpeed    Posted 11-16-2017 at 07:25:10 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: My 8N Tractor In AD
  • So how does this affect all the downloadable manuals on this site ? SoS.

    Ed Gooding (VA)    Posted 11-16-2017 at 09:27:47 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: My 8N Tractor In AD
  • It doesn't, because all the copyrights have expired with the exception of the reprint of the last 8N operator's manual (which is why we offer the 1950 version).

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 11-16-2017 at 08:17:17 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: My 8N Tractor In AD
  • Ford-Ferguson/Ford Tractor Operations/Dearborn Motors are no longer in business. Those copyrights expired a long time ago and should be OK to copy now. I think Ed researched this several years ago. If there were legal issues, I'm sure we wouldn't be scanning and posting manuals for free download.

    Tim Daley(MI)

    SelectOSpeed    Posted 11-16-2017 at 08:33:15 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: My 8N Tractor In AD
  • So in essence, it is No different from the Ebay seller offering the Pencil noted manual ? SoS.

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 11-16-2017 at 14:28:32 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: My 8N Tractor In AD
  • Whatever. It's the principal of the issue.

    TPD

    SelectOSpeed    Posted 11-16-2017 at 17:46:47 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: My 8N Tractor In AD
  • Exactly. SoS

    Mike Johnston    Posted 11-15-2017 at 17:25:04 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: My 8N Tractor In AD
  • I would like to talk to someone. I have an older 1958 powermaster tractor. I was going to repaint it grey and red, but as I was prepping it under everything was gold, engine, trans, rear end. my serial numbers are *162525* is this the real demonstrator and what should I do. I don't want to ruin history. Could someone contact me ? or call me 510-219-1201...Mike Johnston Galt California.
    I don't seem to know how to blog or use the forums yet

    Kirk-NJ    Posted 11-17-2017 at 06:56:23 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: My 8N Tractor In AD
  • There are also production codes on the engine, radiator and rear center housing. They should all be within the three month period that the gold demo were made.

    Kirk

    Kirk-NJ    Posted 11-16-2017 at 07:13:25 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: My 8N Tractor In AD
  • Numbers aren't right for demo. Would be between 60K and 70K. On the trans on the right side of the bell housing stamped just above the two holes will be the recall tracking numbers. Do you have these numbers? There should also be casting code number and production number on the trans. What are these number. Personally I would not paint it gold unless all the number match.
    In my photo of my gold demo all the numbers are within the three month period that the gold demos were made.
    Now there was an exchange program in the mid 1965 where that would change out the early ORC trans for a later DDC trans. The dealer was suppose to restamp the original numbers on the on the trans.
    My Blue gold demo in the photo has gold all over it but I will not paint in gold because it has a exchange trans. I would sell it if someone wants to make it a gold demo. You can really see the gold where I took the wheel weights off.
    If you do paint it gold take photo of all the gold on the tractor before you paint itKirk

    SelectOSpeed    Posted 11-15-2017 at 20:39:39 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: My 8N Tractor In AD
  • A true Gold Demonstrator SOS would have a serial range in the low 58000s to possibly low 60000s. Ford Tractor Lore has it that each dealer got One. I've never found out a definite number of how many dealers existed when the Gold Demos were introduced in early 1959. (January/February). Keep in mind that the early Demo transmissions failed almost instantly. Some were upgraded by FoMoCo,and some were replaced with a complete new improved transmission. Although Ford had very explicit instructions to transfer the serial number to the case of the replacement, unfortunately some were not done by dealers. A replacement transmission also had additional number and letter codes stamped into the Right side of the trans case. Whatever those codes denoted are lost to history now. Also owing to the lapse of time and the ruthless hand of ignorance, many trans swaps were done with no thought of serial numbers being transferred. Another way to determine an approximate build date or year model is to look at the top radiator tank on the right hand side near the front edge of it. IF it is the original Ford top tank, there is a month and year stamp in it. Also the ORIGINAL mufflers had a month and year stamp near the stamped FoMoCo Oval. Gasoline powered tractor mufflers did not have a high survival rate, but Diesels did. The Genuine FoMoCo Replacement mufflers however DID NOT have the month and year stamping. On another note I have a late 1958 851D that has the boss on the right hand hood side panel for the SOS PTO cable/handle. This tractor has a radiator and muffler stamping of 7-58 on both. I believe this tractor was built in late August or early September of 1958. HTH. SoS.

    Gaspump    Posted 11-15-2017 at 21:25:10 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: My 8N Tractor In AD
  • I have the dealer data from 1959, there were a little over 3000 dealers. All dealers were asked to take a gold demo, many did not. The better dealers often took more than one as they were available and there was a very good incentive that went along with one. I recall as late as August 1959 F Thompson, head of dealer relations had the department still putting pressure on hold out dealers to order a demo unit. I don't recall that any did. Also the statement that the early demos failed almost instantly is not entirely true. Way to many did but the problem was met head on. Transmissions in all the early units replaced as needed or if requested. I visited dealers in the mid west and western states and by mid 1959 many dealers did not even mention the issue. Seems likely they were content with the resolution of the problem or they would have jumped on me with both feet.

    Larry    Posted 11-16-2017 at 07:05:27 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: My 8N Tractor In AD
  • That's interesting you mentioned the early SOS trannies failed. Growing up on the farm my dad had a Jubilee. When they first came out with the SOS my dad was looking for a new tractor. Every time we would go to the dealer to get parts for things they would have a SOS in there torn down. He bought a 62 or 63 4000 with the 5 speed , live power and power steering. Best tractor we ever had. I think that is was the first or second year that they were blue. It looked like the 800 series tractors. I remember his saying I will not buy one with that SOS. They are prone to fail. A friend of mine grew up on the farm also and his dad had a SOS and never had problems with it. Those early ones must have been problematic. Thanks for the info.

    SelectOSpeed    Posted 11-16-2017 at 08:19:48 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: My 8N Tractor In AD
  • Larry, the early SOS transmission Was problematic, but like GP stated, FoMoCo immediately addressed the problems with the goal of total satisfaction to the dealers and owners. Out of many problem areas in the early units, one of them was the input shaft bearing in the pump cover was too small and couldn't stand up to the loads imposed on it. The bearing would fail, grind itself up, and send metal shavings all through the hydraulic and mechanical circuits. A service campaign to correct that particular problem involved removal of the trans front cover, ( Ford nomenclature was Pump Adapter Plate) boring the plate for a larger bearing, and installation of a larger bearing accommodating input shaft. Another upgrade was the replacement of the One Way Sprag Type Clutch with a Overrunning Roller Type Clutch. This unit provided the Direct Drive Speeds of the trans. The Sprag Clutch was prone to failure in early units. It is located directly behind the Pump Adapter Plate, so it usually was replaced during the Bearing replacement. As stated by Kirk, A Hydraulic Direct Drive Clutch replaced the Roller Clutch in the later 63/64 2000/4000 series. It is interesting that the Ford 6000 Tractor that was introduced in late 1960 as a 61 model, had the Direct Drive Clutch installed. The higher horsepower and increased load capacity of the 6000 necessitated that change. The 601 to 901 series continued with the Roller type until 1963. It should be noted that the Ford 6000 SOS transmission was the same unit as was utilized in the smaller tractors as well as the 1801 Industrial series, with two notable differences. The 6000 had its Final Reduction Gear at the Rear Axles. The 601-4000 series Final Reduction Gear was in the rear of the transmission case. The 6000 was also fitted with a transmission Cooler system. Other than that they are the same. SoS

    Larry    Posted 11-16-2017 at 11:54:41 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: My 8N Tractor In AD
  • That's very interesting. I enjoy reading your posts. I sold my 8N and bought a 74 Ford 3000 but still read this daily.

    SelectOSpeed    Posted 11-15-2017 at 21:37:11 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: My 8N Tractor In AD
  • I was hoping you would chime in. I wasn't sure if you were still with Ford at that time. You are the first definitive source of dealer count I've ever heard. Thanks for that. Were you aware of the stampings on the right side of replacement transmission cases, and what they meant ? SoS.

    Ed Gooding (VA)    Posted 11-16-2017 at 09:55:15 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Tech. Service Bulletins to dealers on the SOS/gold demos

  • SelectOSpeed    Posted 11-16-2017 at 11:19:00 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Tech. Service Bulletins to dealers on the SOS/gold demos
  • Wow Ed ! Thanks!! The last paragraph on the first bulletin page explains it. You are my Hero ! SoS.

    Kirk-NJ    Posted 11-16-2017 at 04:53:08 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: My 8N Tractor In AD
  • Stamping on the right side of bell housing was the recall tracking numbers.

    SelectOSpeed    Posted 11-16-2017 at 07:40:19 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: My 8N Tractor In AD
  • Its obvious the right side stamping is indicative of replacement documentation, but my point was the decipher of it. Like was it a code of the installing dealer, a Ford Tractor Distributor/Branch code, a date code, a version/revision code,or if it belonged to The Little Old Lady From Pasadena ?.SoS.

    Kirk-NJ    Posted 11-16-2017 at 09:15:16 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: My 8N Tractor In AD
  • I believe it was just a way to track what they replaced

    BlasterStumps    Posted 11-15-2017 at 18:24:38 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: My 8N Tractor In AD
  • by that serial number, should be a 1962 I think.

    clayton ingmire    Posted 11-15-2017 at 10:33:21 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: My 8N Tractor In AD
  • Hey tim just a question did any of the aluminum hooded tractors have the breather tube up threw the hood as the one advertise here for 50 k. I think he stated it was#364 ? thanks

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 11-16-2017 at 05:40:06 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: My 8N Tractor In AD
  • The vertical exhaust pipe and muffler assembly was never a factory installed item. They were always an optional dealer available accessory. Most likely first offered beginning in 1940, maybe late 1939, maybe later, I don't know for sure. Anything is possible as tractors most undoubtedly had more than one owner over their lifespans. The same can be said for lighting kits. They were never a factory installed item -always a dealer optional accessory. All accessories could be purchased by the owner at their local tractor dealership and either installed by the dealer mechanics or taken home and installed by the farmer himself. Here's a scan from our MANUALS library of the original vertical exhaust stack installation instructions:

    Tim Daley(MI)

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 11-15-2017 at 07:13:54 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: My 8N Tractor In AD

  • MY RESTORED, EARLY 1948 FORD 8N:

    Tim Daley(MI)

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