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Subject: Gear Oil and Water

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Tony Sanchez (OR)    Posted 11-16-2017 at 19:44:06 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Gear Oil and Water
  • So next I decided to change the gear oil on this poor thing after sitting outside for ever I've been told, and about 2 gallons of water came out before any oil did.
    How in the heck did the water get in! I thought the only way was through the fill hole or dipstick. Even then, 2 GALLONS! So what does this water do to the internals and should I worry about it? I'm just about to drive it for the first time. New battery, engine oil. The engine now runs and idles. She is ready to go. I got a hold of 5 gallons of Napa GL1.
    Do I flush it out with some cleaner before taking off?
    46 2N.

    Thanks
    Tony

    Jock(OR)    Posted 11-20-2017 at 04:30:09 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Gear Oil and Water
  • If you have something to attach to the 3-point, like an implement, it will provide the weight to help lower the lift arms. Then you can exercise the system, since it seems to be working better with use.

    Good luck! I hope the system returns to normal with exercise.

    36 coupe    Posted 11-19-2017 at 14:23:49 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Gear Oil and Water
  • Your tractor could have spent some time in a farm pond.

    Tony Sanchez (OR)    Posted 11-18-2017 at 20:21:54 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Cleaned The Gear Box
  • I spent a good part of the day cleaning out the gear box. I'll keep it pithy. Decided to just clean out the gear box before the removal of the pump. With the holidays coming I just don't have the time. I removed the two round covers and took a look inside. Before I did that I filled it with diesel and ran in in place with jacks. I took it through all the gears and the hyd. pump lifted the 3 point hitch but would not go down. This was the fist time I tried the pump.
    After a few minutes I drained the gear box and looked inside. I could see lots of gunk as expected. So, I figured I would take my water hose nozzle and spray in side from both holes. A lot of junk came out. Well I figured if this thing had 2 gallons of water in it for years, how could a quick spray of clean water hurt it. I then took my air nozzle and blew out as much water as I could, then pored back the diesel after filtering it to flush out any water left behind. Drained the diesel and filled with gear oil. The hitch works but I still have to stand on it for it to go down. It gets easier as I use it more and more. Question: should the hitch drop as fast as it goes up?
    Thanks for the tips on how to deal with this problem. The diesel did help a lot.

    R Geiger    Posted 11-17-2017 at 10:59:19 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Gear Oil and Water
  • My tractors NEVER sit out in the rain and I sure as heck do not operate them in the rain and they still get a lot of water in transmission.

    In a perfect world drop pump and remove top housing of trans and hyd cover to really inspect and clean out the goo. that would give you the time to insp pump for cracks. also check the bottom of trans for cracks. I bought one that had a crack in bottom of trans most likely from water freezing.

    Dave H    Posted 11-17-2017 at 07:11:23 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Gear Oil and Water
  • If it was me i would give it a try as is.

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 11-17-2017 at 06:39:19 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Gear Oil and Water
  • Tony-
    Water and oil do not mix. As Bruce suggested, the best solution is to drop the pump NOE before you plan on using it and clean out the system like new. The pump could have been cracked and was getting water in long before it sat outside. You need to understand that the 9N/2N system is different than the 8N and NAA systems. Get out your MPC, I&T F-04 manual, and Service Manuals for complete procedure on doing it right. There is a very good DIY video too that will help you step by step -SEE LINK below. We also have info in our HOW-TO's here -one article is on the 8N Hydraulics but will have valuable info that can be used on eth 9N/2N systems. It is very important you know how to proceed before loosening a single nut or bolt. On all 9N/2N and 8N systems, the cylinder is fastened to the top cover with four bolts. These are visible under the seat in the inner bolt pattern. The top cover is fastened on to the center housing with 15 hex head bolts in various lengths so it is important to know which bolt goes where. Best to sketch a diagram when you remove them and mark on the head a number. You DO NOT loosen the four bolts that secure the cylinder onto the top cover until you have the cover off and on your bench. Another very important fact about the 9N/2N system is it utilizes a 'wishbone' bracket linkage and it MUST be removed first before the top cover is pulled off. There are a few good cleaning solvents to use to clean everything with. I prefer plain old Mineral Spirits. It cuts grease, grime, and stubborn crud and will not hurt anything internally. It is the main ingredient in most snake-oil products like MMO, STABIL, KROIL, SEA FOAM and many others. Many use UATF or diesel fuel or kerosene and all work well too. The important thing is that you read the manuals and get this video so you know what you are going to do before wrenching anything. Once the pump is on your bench, you will be able to determine the status of it. If it is cracked, you will need to replace it with a new or rebuilt pump. If it has the original 3-ring piston, consider replacing with the newer NAA piston that uses a rubber O-Ring and leather backup washer/wiper. Chances are the cylinder is pretty well worn as well so I'd think about a new cylinder as well -forget any used cylinders, they will be almost as bad as your old one. Suggest you get your son, daughter, nephew, cousin, or a buddy to help too. Also, as with any project best not to buy any new parts until you know exactly whet you'll need. You will need a new gasket kit and a new piston for sure, and probably a new cylinder but wait and get all the part at one time and place.

    Tim Daley(MI)

    Farmer Brown    Posted 11-17-2017 at 06:27:05 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Gear Oil and Water
  • You aren't going to get two gallons of water in there by condensation from the byproduct of combustion. I would look elsewhere like that shifter boot.

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 11-17-2017 at 06:43:26 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Gear Oil and Water
  • Tractor was setting outside for who knows how many years. I'd agree two gallons not going to accumulate from normal condensation but who knows if the system wasn't already contaminated when parked and most likely the shifter boot dry rotted over the years and thus did allow more water in. If no dipstick present, also a point of entry.

    Tim Daley(MI)

    Bruce (VA)    Posted 11-16-2017 at 19:47:46 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Gear Oil and Water
  • Well, if you plan on keeping the tractor, you should drop the pump and clean all the sludge out. Post back if you want info on doing that. Otherwise, let it drain overnight & fill it up. See tips 3 & 4.

    Contrary to conventional wisdom, not a lot of water gets in the oil from the shifter boot. Of course, if it's bad, replace it, but you get water from the draft control spring & the dipstick. But, most water is just a byproduct of the heating/cooling cycle of the oil. I've seen the pictures of an experiment to test the 'leaky shifter boot' theory. With no shifter boot installed, a lot of water was poured over the transmission cover sitting over a 5 gallon bucket. Result? No water in the bucket.

    Tony    Posted 11-17-2017 at 11:31:33 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Gear Oil and Water
  • First off water and oil don't mix....easily. Even after agitation they separate except when modified with detergents, e.g. hot motor oil and water together in the crankcase making a chocolate oilshake. .

    Follow Bruces' TIPS number three and four. You will get it completely drained.

    If you got mostly water, then slightly discolored oil and then oil, refill it. Run it. After running it and getting some heat to it, take a sample. If you don't like the look of the sample, drain it again and refill it. Two turns of GO(GL)90, 140 or whatever and you are good to go. Take it out and run it in road gear to get everything in the drive train re-acquainted and the oil sloshed around. Same for the hydraulics.

    If you open a couple of the inspection plates you will see rust near the top of the gear cases. Don't fear, it's from condensation and has no effect on performance. Same for rust on the gears. It will polish off as soon as the machine has been run. The inside will be coated with oil after ten minutes of operation. It's a low speed transmission system.

    I doubt you will be plowing adobe in first gear ten hours a day. Don't obsess, refill it, run it, enjoy it.

    If the hydraulics work now they will work after changing the oil. However you have no idea if there was a preexisting problem with the hydraulics. worry about that later

    Tony Sanchez (OR)    Posted 11-16-2017 at 20:33:05 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Gear Oil and Water
  • Hey Bruce I do plan on keeping it. I want to restore it in the future when I retire soon. Is the pump dropping in one of the tips? I'm assuming It's not just simply letting it go when I have it in my hands.
    Thanks

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