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Subject: 9n wont start

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Torch    Posted 01-06-2018 at 19:57:13 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • 9n wont start
  • My 9n wont start. Worked just fine until it got cold. It has spark. It seems like there is something wrong with the governor linkage. Ha sent ever been touched. When I move the throttle back and forth it doesn't move the throttle open. Does any one know if this is the problem? the governor arms are worn that it wobles back and forth

    Gary Ostby    Posted 01-07-2018 at 13:57:37 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 9n wont start
  • Like you my 2N ran perfect until the cold weather then refused to start. Although the battery was old, 2008, It always held a charge with the trickle charger showing a charged battery by the green light. Tried several things, turned out the green light on charger didn't show that the battery was charging and in this cold weather the battery froze and evidently a short developed. New battery fixed the problem. Now I'm waiting for someone to describe how to test my Battery Tender charger ? Gary

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 01-07-2018 at 15:47:56 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 9n wont start
  • Gary -
    BATTERY TENDER JR. ®™ is just the a brand name from the DELTRAN CORP, and there are several brands of float chargers around. If it is indeed one of their models, they have a 10 year warranty. Again, you cannot judge the condition of the battery simply by a 'green light' or that it has been on a charger. It needs to be tested for sure. You can perform your specific gravity test with a basic hydrometer; cheap ones that have the colored balls in an eyedropper style device are available at any auto parts store. Some franchise auto parts stores offer battery testing too, but I prefer my local trusty starter/alternator guy. He is also a friend of mine and a Ford Tractor aficionado as well.

    Tim Daley(MI)

    Gary Ostby    Posted 01-07-2018 at 17:29:45 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 9n wont start
  • Tim; When the tractor wouldn't start I took it to NAPA. They determined it was totally dead due to a massive break inside the battery. And because the top post was pushed up that it was probably frozen. Bought a new battery and it started right up. Hope this battery lasts 10 years like the last one. I hadn't started the tractor for 2 months but decided to have a midwinter warm up, that's when I noticed the battery was dead .Napa guy said if the charger light was green the charger was probably faulty and should be tested. Glad to hear about the 10 year warranty, I'll look into that. Gary

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 01-11-2018 at 12:28:43 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 9n wont start
  • Yep, don't always assume because there is a green light all is well. Your trusty starter/alternator shop will be able to test a charger for you, don't think NAPA will though. I just looked at my Battery Tender Jr. (6V) Model I bought late last year and it says it has a 5-Year Warranty on it. I think I read on the Deltran site some had 10-year warranties.

    Tim Daley(MI)

    Bruce (VA)    Posted 01-07-2018 at 14:36:35 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 9n wont start
  • So, do you have a Battery Tender float charger made by Deltran or do you have a trickle charger? A battery charger, even a "trickle" charger, left unattended will eventually boil out a battery.

    Gary Ostby    Posted 01-07-2018 at 15:06:12 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 9n wont start
  • Float charger by Deltran. Green light on but battery dead.

    Bruce (VA)    Posted 01-07-2018 at 15:08:19 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 9n wont start
  • The new battery is dead?

    Gary Ostby    Posted 01-07-2018 at 15:21:05 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 9n wont start
  • No, the old one died but the charger indicated it was fully charged. Battery must have frozen, according to NAPA, and caused an internal short in battery. But charger light didn't turn to yellow so I thought the battery was fully charged when it was in fact discharged enough to allow the battery to freeze.

    Bruce (VA)    Posted 01-07-2018 at 15:25:33 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 9n wont start
  • Put the tender on the new battery. What does the light do?

    Torch    Posted 01-07-2018 at 22:02:26 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 9n wont start
  • Just to clarify whats going on. Switched over to a electronic ignition and 12 volt system which is all new and done according to instruction. A brand new battery. I checked it out tonite and it has spark and gas but wont start. The governor arm that goes to the carb butterfly is very tight. When I move the throttle lever it does not move the carb butterfly at all. The carb butterfly is always in the idle position.

    Bruce (VA)    Posted 01-08-2018 at 07:29:56 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 9n wont start
  • Disconnect the arm at the carb. Move the butterfly by hand. Does it move?

    Then, remove the linkage arm at the governor. Does the governor arm move?

    AL CT    Posted 01-07-2018 at 08:26:40 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 9n wont start
  • I had a 1950 8N that when cold would not start. Warm weather no problem at all.
    Had great spark and fuel flow. I found there was two reasons for the poor staring of this tractor. One was a starter that drew excessive amount of current. Proper testing by a generator and stater re-builder confirmed it. I changed the starter out for a new one, installed the spring less Bendix at the same time while it was accessible. Second and primary reason for poor starting when cold was low compression. I lucked out and purchased a rebuilt engine, swapped it out and that 8N never gave me one second of trouble starting when cold, no matter what the temp was. It was my go to snow remover until I sold it a couple years ago.

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 01-07-2018 at 07:43:48 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 9n wont start
  • You can check the throttle linkage to carb, but like Harold said, the governor isn't your likely problem. How did you check for spark? Did you also check for fuel flow? Did you foul the plugs? You don't tell us if it is 6-volt/positive ground or a 12-volt conversion, and if you have an EI system, but either way, again, the battery needs to be fully charged. Cold, especially extremely cold weather will greatly affect the battery, especially if it isn't capable of sustaining a full charge under load. Simply connecting a battery charger to it does not mean it is a good battery. Cells must register a specific gravity in order to be good. Also, get a copy of Bruce(VA)'s 75 Tips if you don't have one already -see LINK below and download it.

    You need a strong battery to:

    1. Spin the starter
    2. Engage the Bendix
    3. Provide voltage to the coil.

    The following is courtesy of Bruce(VA), tips on battery care and performance:

    As the battery gets weaker, the first thing to fail is your spark. The more current you use to spin the starter, the less you have for the ignition. If your starter pulls that battery down much below 5.2 volts (ref: 6-volt battery), the module in the EI will not fire. It doesn't really matter much if the battery is "fully charged" until you test it correctly. What did the load and hydrometer tests show on your battery? Your trusty local starter/alternator shop can bench test it on their special machine, usually at no charge –no pun intended. No matter what else you do, the battery must be fully charged. A float charger is helpful; not a trickle charger, but a float charger, i.e/e.g. Battery Tender ® ™ is a popular brand, available at Walmart. A battery charger, even a "trickle" charger, left unattended will eventually boil out a battery. I use float chargers for two reasons: battery longevity and a sure start. Battery sulfation occurs at a specific rate at "X" temperature. Over time, sulfation reduces battery performance and eventually its effects are irreversible. Sulfation of batteries starts when specific gravity falls below 1.225 or voltage measures less than 12.4 for a 12v battery, or 6.2 for a 6 volt battery. Sulfation hardens on the battery plates reducing and eventually destroying the ability of the battery to generate current. Using a float charger significantly reduces sulfation. Your battery loses 33 percent of its power when the temperature dips below freezing, and over 50 percent of its power when the temperature falls below zero. A fully charged battery will not freeze until -76°F; however, a fully discharged battery can start to freeze at 32°F. So……keep the battery fully charged! If you have a digital volt meter, 6.03 volts on a 6 volt battery and 12.06 volts on a 12 volt battery is only a 25% charge! I use Deltran/Battery Tender ®™ float chargers on all my tractors, my golf cart, and 1929 Ford Model A. Pricey, but they work and some have in-lines fuses. All are hard wired to the vehicles. (*see below)

    If you need to jump it, see tip # 43. No, it doesn’t need to be 12v. Plenty of N’s start just fine on 6v in below 0°F temps. Clean grounds & battery terminals are always important. Don’t forget to loosen the starter from the block (see tip # 36) and polish the block & all starter mating surfaces w/ sandpaper to insure a good electrical ground.

    If you can’t remember the last time you replaced the battery cables, it’s time to do it. Just because the terminals are clean doesn’t mean there is no corrosion under the insulation. And, this is another case where size matters (see tip # 41)

    A charged battery, clean grounds & new cables aren’t going to mean much if the tractor needs a tune-up. At a minimum, every fall, remove the cap, check the points for pitting or burning, re-gap them & put a dab of lube on the cam. (BTW…..if you’ve wondered why some folks get years of use out of a set of points…….this is one of the reasons). See tips 66, 67 & 68.
    Things that aren’t all that important in warm weather become serious when it gets cold…like timing. A few degrees of timing either way at 60°F or 70°F isn’t likely to result in a “no-start” situation. Well, it can at 10°F or 20°F. Check the timing! Yes, you can set the timing on a front distributor.
    Distributor gaskets are important on a sidemount & critical on a front mount, as is the gasket under the coil. Just like with the battery cables….if you can’t remember when you replaced the gaskets, do it this year.
    Push the clutch in when you start the engine (tip # 29)
    Oil viscosity can make a difference. If the tractor is going to be consistently operated below 20°F, switch to SAE 10w30; at 0°F go to SAE 5w30.
    Pull the air cleaner cup & check for ice.
    This tip won’t make it start easier, but it will make it run better: turn the carb main jet out ˝ to 1 full turn for cold weather operating. Cold air is denser so you need a richer mixture.
    While each N has its own starting sequence, none of them will start well by just yanking out the choke rod & holding it out for 5 or 10 seconds while the engine cranks. This is a gravity fuel system on a low compression engine; it is easily flooded by too much choke.
    Try this:
    Key on, gas on 2 full turns, clutch in, 3/4 throttle, press the starter button. Let it crank for at least 3 - 4 seconds before you pull the choke rod. Then, don't hold it out for more than 2 or 3 seconds.
    If you find out it will not start w/o excessive choking, you have problems.
    If you flood it, the plugs are fouled & it will be it next to impossible to start. Replace the plugs. You don't need to toss them; heat the tips for a few seconds w/ a propane torch to burn off the invisible spark-robbing deposits from today's additive filled gasoline........or wash them in brake cleaner.
    Folks who live in places a lot colder than I do here in VA will argue about battery blankets or magnetic oil pan heaters as compared to lower radiator hose heaters or dipstick heaters. While the consensus leans toward lower radiator hose heaters, I can’t offer a personal observation; the only thing I’ve ever used to heat an engine was a 100w light bulb laid against the intake manifold. Freeze plug heaters are difficult to find for N’s because of the limited space in the water jacket. Magnetic oil pan heaters on the intake manifold will help as well. And after you get it started, it will not run as well as it should in cold weather if the engine never gets to it's proper operating temperature. Use a thermostat! See tip # 25.
    While water in gas today is unusual because of all the ethanol, it’s not unheard of. The problem stems from what’s called ‘phase separation’ in the gasoline. The alcohol binds to the water & it settles in the bottom of your tank. The way to mitigate that is to keep the tank FULL and use fuel stabilizer. Less air means less moisture in the tank for the alcohol to absorb. If you’re lucky enough to live in a state where you can buy ethanol free gas (and it does not require a bank loan to do it) then add alcohol to the gasoline. (e.g., “HEET”) Otherwise, the 10% ethanol in the gas is more than enough to deal w/ the water.

    And finally..............the tractor won't run very well with a cracked block! Check your anti-freeze; use a 50/50 mix of anti-freeze and distilled water.

    Tim Daley(MI)

    HCooke    Posted 01-06-2018 at 20:03:17 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 9n wont start
  • Gov may be worn, but that is not the reason for the no start. It did not wear between now and the last time it ran. Likely culprits are weak battery because of cold and cold. Recharge battery and try to warm the tractor.

    Torch    Posted 01-06-2018 at 20:30:23 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 9n wont start
  • Why when the throttle is moved back and forth doesnt the throttle open and close? It does not move at all

    Rustyal    Posted 01-07-2018 at 12:09:05 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 9n wont start
  • Sounds like it is stuck or the linkage is not connected someplace. Get a good charge on the battery. Then open the throttle up manually and give it a try.

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