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Subject: 1940 9N starter relay question

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Serge    Posted 01-22-2018 at 18:44:29 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • 1940 9N starter relay question
  • Hi friends
    on my 9n there is no click when trying to start the engine If I clean everything and still no clcik does it mean the relay have to be replace?
    NOTE: also does the relay have something to do about keeping the engine running??
    the fact the push starter switch is not working if I use some booster cable connect the + on the starter and + battery and the - at the - battery use the other end of the - touch the tractor frame. The engine turn and it's trying to start (I keep playing with the choke and play with the gas when it seems to start if I let go the - from the frame it does not keep runnig.

    your help is always appreciated

    Serge

    deanostoybox    Posted 01-23-2018 at 17:51:17 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 1940 9N starter relay question
  • Hi again

    Just read my reply to your post and something did not make sense. You said you hooked the + post on the battery to the starter, and the - post on the battery to the frame. Do you not have a cable or strap connecting the - post of the battery to the frame? If it is 12V negative ground you should. Putting the jumper from the + post of the battery to the starter should bypass the switch and it should crank without needing a jumper cable from the - side of battery, that should be connected already.

    later
    deano

    deanostoybox    Posted 01-23-2018 at 17:36:58 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 1940 9N starter relay question
  • Hi Serge

    You said:
    "on my 9n there is no click when trying to start the engine If I clean everything and still no clcik does it mean the relay have to be replace?
    NOTE: also does the relay have something to do about keeping the engine running??
    the fact the push starter switch is not working if I use some booster cable connect the + on the starter and + battery and the - at the - battery use the other end of the - touch the tractor frame. The engine turn and it's trying to start (I keep playing with the choke and play with the gas when it seems to start if I let go the - from the frame it does not keep runnig."

    First, it has a switch not a relay:-) The switch has two large terminals. One terminal has a cable which connects to the battery, the other has a cable which connects to the starter. There is another wire which goes to (or through) the ammeter (depending which type of ammeter you have). That wire supplies power to the ignition, lights, and also supplies charge to the battery from the generator or alternator as the case may be. That wire goes on the same terminal as the cable that goes to the battery. If it is on the terminal that goes to the starter, then when cranking the engine will fire, or "try to start", but as soon as the switch is disconnected the engine will die.

    In another post you said that you had something like 3.5Ω across the switch when you checked it with a meter. If the plunger was fully depressed when you made that check, then yes, the switch needs to be replaced. Sometimes the linkage from the starter button by the gearshift to the switch gets worn and will not depress the starter switch fully. This will cause the switch to not make contact, or to make the switch arc inside burning it up.

    later
    deano

    Serge    Posted 01-23-2018 at 18:08:11 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 1940 9N starter relay question
  • so if I understand even if I have continuity reading with a 3.5 Ohms this switch have to be replace???

    deanostoybox    Posted 01-23-2018 at 18:44:01 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 1940 9N starter relay question
  • If the plunger of the switch is fully depressed when you get that reading, yes. That much resistance would limit the current to the starter to less than 4 Amps at 12V. The starter needs maybe several hundred Amps to turn the motor. You should read at or near 0Ω with your meter when that switch is good. Most of the resistance you would be reading would be in the meter leads and their connection to the terminals on the switch.

    That said, some folks have had some luck cleaning the switch by soaking it in some kind of cleaner. I have not tried that, and would not recommend doing that as it would be only a temporary fix at best.

    later
    deano

    HCooke    Posted 01-23-2018 at 13:35:03 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 1940 9N starter relay question
  • Since your tractor has been converted to 12 volts, there is no way for us to know how it was don (there are many ways to do the conversion). Look at JMOR's wiring diagrams for 9N 12 volt and tell us if one is similar to yours.

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 01-23-2018 at 05:29:35 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 1940 9N starter relay question
  • HiYa Serge-
    6-volt/positive ground or a 12-volt conversion? NO, the starter button does not stay engaged to keep the tractor running, if that is what you mean. Also, the Ford 9N and 2N tractor electrical starters did not have a solenoid on the starter, if that is what you mean. Their units have but one wire only. Some guys think the round-can cutout located behind the dash is the starter solenoid but they'd be wrong. The 9N/2N starter has the one wire going from the unit to one side of the Neutral Safety Interlock Switch (Button) beginning at s/n 12500. The other terminal connects a wire from it to the NEG terminal on the battery if original 6-volt/positive ground. When you turn the key and all you get is a 'clicking' sound, chances are great it is because you have a dead or badly discharged battery. You need a good, fully charged battery in order to crank the engine over. How old is yours? 6 volt or 12 volt system? Your battery must sustain a charge under load, and that means not just slapping a battery charger on it overnight. You need it tested for specific gravity with a hydrometer, or, just take it to your trusty local starter/alternator shop and they will bench test it with the proper test equipment, usually for free. Do you have the essential 9N/2N owner manuals? If you have a 6-volt/positive ground system, you are not jumping it correctly for one. Get a copy of Bruce(VA)'s 75 Tips for N Owners ((see HOW-TO's forum) downloaded for shop reference. Seek WIRING PICTOGRAMS by JMOR (see HOW-TO's forum)for the correct way to wire these old N's regardless if 6 volt or 12 volt. Excessive cranking with failure to start will soon foul your plugs. Pull one and analyze. If wet, do not discard, pull them all and replace with fresh dry ones, or take a flame to burn off excess fuel, gently clean with a toothbrush or brass wire brush, recheck gap, .025" on front mount systems, and reinstall. Your problem sounds like electrical, but check for fuel flow once you get battery fully checked and charged and new plugs installed -again, see Bruce(VA)'s tips. I do not see anywhere in the F-04 Manual where it calls the 9N/2N starter button a relay.

    FORD 9N/2N TRACTOR OWNER ESSENTIAL MANUALS:

    Tim Daley(MI)

    Serge    Posted 01-23-2018 at 08:22:29 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 1940 9N starter relay question
  • it's a 12 volts system that I have on 9n

    thanks for the info

    Serge

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 01-23-2018 at 13:57:47 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 1940 9N starter relay question
  • Yep, like Mr. Cooke said, until we get more info, no way can we determine what your root cause problem is. I suspected you had a 12-volt conversion; many non-starting issues are related to poorly done conversions. Just slapping a 12-volt battery in the tractor isn't the answer nor one of the correct ways. Do you have an alternator too or still a 6-volt generator? I'd start by first downloading a copy of the WIRING PICTOGRAMS by JMOR from our HOW-TO's forum, subcategory ELECTRICAL. Here is the LINK at the bottom for quick access now. Next, find your model in the list and verify EVERYTHING is good to the schematic. Get the battery checked, charged if needed, or replaced if needed. My hunches also lead me to believe you have some jazzed-up wiring issues going on as well. This is how I would proceed, so once you do these checks, report back. If nothing else, the post gets archived and can be accessed by future users with similar problems.

    Tim Daley(MI)


    Serge    Posted 01-23-2018 at 16:28:45 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 1940 9N starter relay question
  • yes it was converted to 12 volts and always was working perfect her the temperature is very cold like -20c I had to replace the battery about 2 weeks again because it would not charge anymore when boosting it was always starting but always been hard to start I had to play with the chock all the time after starting it was ok since the temperature outside started to play one day +1c and the next day -2c would try but would not start anymore and with new battery the engine is turning good BUT AFTER TRYING MANY Many TIME no more click from the switch?????

    today I did remove the switch and with my volts meter set it at resistor I do have continuity noise about 3.2 Ohms (is this a normal reading?) place everything back in place clean all wires to be sure I have good contact everywhere STILL DOES NOT WORK
    should I get a new switch???

    thanks

    Mike Stanaway    Posted 01-22-2018 at 21:15:21 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 1940 9N starter relay question
  • My 2n wants the shifter in the center of the H to start. Before I went shopping I'd check the continuity of the wires and the relay. There is a trouble shooting guide in the manuals on this sight. Our relay is mechanical not electric. Ignore those wires

    K.LaRue-VA    Posted 01-22-2018 at 20:08:31 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 1940 9N starter relay question
  • There is no relay to make a click on a 9N.
    The 9N start button operates a mechanical start switch located on the front side of column, under the battery. That switch may be fried.

    Serge    Posted 01-22-2018 at 20:38:06 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 1940 9N starter relay question
  • does that switch would keep the tractor running?
    in the manual F-04 they call it a relay?

    at that switch one cable goes to the starter and the other cable to the + of the battery so to me I would say the same thing you say it's a switch

    Bruce (VA)    Posted 01-22-2018 at 19:09:52 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 1940 9N starter relay question
  • Do you have a multimeter?

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