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Subject: starter problems

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Gary Ostby    Posted 01-23-2018 at 14:36:37 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • starter problems
  • 2N, 6 volt, tractor starts fine most of the time but sometimes the starter spins the flywheel over several times and then stops spinning only to produce a high speed whine sound. Any ideas ? Thanks, Gary

    g ostby    Posted 01-23-2018 at 17:58:23 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: starter problems
  • Thanks for the info. I'm going with the weak Bendix. Is the over haul of the Bendix the same on a 2N as the 8N as described in the how to's under 8N's Starter- How to Service and Disassemble the Bendix ? What symptoms am I looking for or do I just replace everything ? Thanks, Gary

    Bruce (VA)    Posted 01-23-2018 at 19:18:19 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: starter problems
  • Really?

    You do know that a weak battery will result in precisely the symptoms you are describing, right?

    Or, you cold need a tune-up.

    It works like this......the bendix engages the ring gear on the flywheel & turns the engine over. When the engine speed exceeds the design speed of the bendix (because the engine is running) it disengages. (and I can never remember what RPM that is)

    What is happening in your engine is that 1 or 2 plugs fire, the engine momentarily exceeds the bendix disengage RPM.....and it disengages before you have all 4 firing.

    If you want to tune it up, just ask; plenty of folks can walk you through that

    But, if you would rather just replace parts w/o diagnosing the problem, then yes, replace the entire Bendix as described in the how-to's.

    g ostby    Posted 01-23-2018 at 21:10:39 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: starter problems
  • Really?: I'll haul my battery in tomorrow and have it tested. It's not that old and I keep it charged. After turning over several times it starts up and runs smoothly so I never considered it might be out of tune. Time will tell. Gary

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 01-24-2018 at 06:23:35 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: starter problems
  • Gary-
    As I first stated, it is much easier to check the battery than pulling the starter so you are doing the right steps. Age of a battery isn't really important. I've come across new ones, purchased within 12 months or less, that were junk. Brand/quality is important. Avoid the cheap bargain-house models. They are notorious for having low life spans to begin with. You say you 'keep it charged', so does that mean you have a battery float charger or that it discharges often and needs to be recharged? A float charger, not a trickle charger, is a good investment. Battery Tender is a good brand and sold at Walmart. You need a good, fully charged battery to crank the engine, and cold weather will affect how effective that can be. Here is a bit of info that Bruce has posted in the past:

    "If you have AC power to the tractor use a float charger. No matter what else you do, the battery must be fully charged. A float charger is helpful; not a trickle charger, but a float charger. A battery charger, even a "trickle" charger, left unattended will eventually boil out a battery. I use float chargers for two reasons: battery longevity and a sure start. Battery sulfation occurs at a specific rate at "X" temperature. Over time, sulfation reduces battery performance and eventually its effects are irreversible. Sulfation of batteries starts when specific gravity falls below 1.225 or voltage measures less than 12.4 for a 12v battery, or 6.2 for a 6 volt battery. Sulfation hardens on the battery plates reducing and eventually destroying the ability of the battery to generate current. Using a float charger significantly reduces sulfation. Your battery loses 33 percent of its power when the temperature dips below freezing, and over 50 percent of its power when the temperature falls below zero. A fully charged battery will not freeze until -76°F; however, a fully discharged battery can start to freeze at 32°F. So……keep the battery fully charged! If you have a digital volt meter, 6.03 volts on a 6 volt battery and 12.06 volts on a 12 volt battery is only a 25% charge! I use Deltran Battery Tenders®™ on all the tractors, the golf cart & '29 Ford. Pricey, but they work & have in-lines fuses. All are hard wired to the vehicles."

    While your battery is being tested and/or replaced, go thru the entire wiring system. If you are constantly losing the battery charge, you may have a phantom short somewhere draining it. If so, I'd start with the lights. Once again, JMOR's Wiring Pictograms is one handy document every N-Owner should have in his shop. If your wiring deviates from what is shown there, it could be a problem. I have seen so many cobbled up/hackmaster 12-volt wiring jobs it isn't funny. Don't assume -verify continuity with a test light or your VOM. Starter/Alternator shops have the proper test machines to test the battery under load. Some franchise auto parts shops do too, but I prefer the former as a retail outlet is going to try to sell you a new battery no matter what. Plus, the aforementioned bad battery that was less than 12 months old was one of those purchased at an auto parts store. Also, when was the last tune-up performed? How often is the tractor used?

    Tim Daley(MI)


    Robert Woodhull (SC)    Posted 01-30-2018 at 13:47:36 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: starter problems
  • TIM,
    Dont want to hijack this posting but i am curious about the "Frozen battery" info you listed. Would love to understand a bit more if you are willing to message me.
    ***My issue***
    1951 8N 6V all original - 3 weeks ago my tractor was left outside in freezing temps (Unusual for us in South Carolina) with key switch on(dang kids). I have not been able to start it since. I have spark, I have gas, I have 90PSI compression. Was running and using it as normal the weekend before. Ran like a champ(i was running it pretty hard moving 10ft. Pine logs)
    Charged battery with 6V trickle charger
    Replaced points and condenser-
    Tried putting gas directly into the cylinder - nothing. Even tried a small squirt of starting fluid - Nothing
    Turn it over until i am blue in the face and the battery dies.

    thoughts?

    Robert

    Bruce (VA)    Posted 01-23-2018 at 16:47:26 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: starter problems
  • Based on my experience, in order of probability:

    weak battery

    out of tune engine

    weak Bendix.

    From my experience, a Bendix just usually explodes.

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 01-23-2018 at 16:43:06 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: starter problems
  • yeah, maybe the starter/Bendix -time for a rebuild, OR, battery is weak. Easier to first test battery, then proceed from there.

    Tim Daley(MI)

    r geiger    Posted 01-23-2018 at 15:20:46 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: starter problems
  • Sounds to me like the bendix is kicking out too soon, may need to be replaced. If the engine tries to fire and does not start it may be enough for the bendix to disengage. Some will say that is the sign that the engine needs a tuneup, some will say the spring on the bendix iss weak. I go with the weak spring theory myself.

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