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Subject: 8N water in oil

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Gary Starr    Posted 06-24-2018 at 11:56:39 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • 8N water in oil
  • Hello everyone. I have a 8N that has been in the family since new serial# 8N I 2227.Never worked hard in it's life,was mostly used for mowing. Last summer I noticed when first starting up after it sits for days or weeks that it had bad white smoke for a bit until it burned off.Changed oil,filter housing had coolant in it. Looked like cylinder #3 due to how clean the plug looked.Drained coolant for the winter figuring on changing head gasket this spring,not wanting engine to sit with any coolant being where it should not. Did that using a Felpro gasket and while no smoke I am still getting water in the oil filter housing. Engine was rebuilt professionally in the 60's when my Dad was using it. Any thoughts on where to go next? Thanks Gary

    Tony C    Posted 06-25-2018 at 12:05:24 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 8N water in oil
  • Hi Gary,

    First off, good that you got rid of the antifreeze and went to plain water. Ethylene glycol will inhale bearings and it doesn't take very long.

    I know this will begin a debate but..... A quality non metallic gasket installed with good quality sealer will conform and adapt to less than perfect mating surfaces, but there is a limit.

    Straight edge both surfaces, You may find the head is out by a few thousandths. Be sure to check diagonally. Look for cracks obviously. If suspect a crack, dress it with a sanding block or stone, then dig at it with a small pick. You won't take a significant amount of material off. Besides it's not going into space.

    Years ago before dye/developer testing guys who work with aluminum would use diesel and talcum powder to detect cracks. Clean the surface extremely well. Spray on a little diesel, then the talcum powder. Let it sit a few hours. THen buff it off using minimal pressure and maximum strokes. Dye testing is just an improved technique.The talcum powder will have gotten into the crack and you will see the residue. It's harder to see in cast iron or steel it does work. Using magnification helps too.

    Or..You can try the "fix in a can" technique. I am not a fan of any additives of any kind in my cars or equipment. Maybe BarsLeaks and Silver Seal for pinhole pressure leaks. I flat don't use others.

    However that said last year a buddy who has a 320C JD dozer got a belly full of water. It was a "machine's gotta go tomorrow" situation. He went to the autoparts and got a quart bottle of Blue Devil Sealer,followed the directions slavishly. I was skeptical. We flushed the system, changed the oil and filter. He deviated by adding all of it, more than the suggested amount. Let it run at high idle an hour or so. We dropped the oil while it was hot, changed the filter and refilled tha crankcase, then loaded it on the trailer and it went to work the next day. I saw him later and asked when are we going to replace the head gasket in the machine and he said no need, it's running fine. No chocolate shake in the pan. It's been several months now.

    THe dye check kits are spendy. $85 or so. Blue Devil was around $55 IIRC. But... Blue Devil has a warranty. Keep the bottle and receipt. If it doesn't work return it and get your money back.

    Good luck. Probably just a head gasket or warped head. Easily fixed. Unless the engine was GROSSLY overheated, frozen or overheated and shock cooled, the block should be fine.

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 06-24-2018 at 16:02:12 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 8N water in oil
  • The best way to find out if the block is cracked is to get it stripped down and boiled then Magna-Fluxed to detect any cracks. The worse case scenario is you have a crack somewhere causing the coolant to get in the mix. The good news is if so, and crack isn't bad, it may be repairable.

    Tim Daley(MI)

    gary starr    Posted 06-24-2018 at 12:32:43 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 8N water in oil
  • Just want to add when this started I had green anti freeze in the oil. Replaced head gasket using no sealer,retorque head after warming up. Refilled radiator with plain water,that is what is showing up in the oil now.

    steveVa    Posted 06-24-2018 at 16:29:52 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 8N water in oil
  • fiber gasket with no sealer?
    I would try a metal gasket with copper coat and check for flatness of the head and block before I tore it all down.
    When you have the head off again look real good for the track of the leak or any cracks in head or top of block.

    BlasterStumps    Posted 06-24-2018 at 13:19:45 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 8N water in oil
  • Did you really give things a good look over when you had it apart? Make sure there are no cracks in the head or block? I was asking before if you found any issues that would have been responsible for the coolant in the oil before. Usually if the head gasket has failed, there is tracking that shows it.

    BlasterStumps    Posted 06-24-2018 at 12:27:57 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 8N water in oil
  • What did you find when you replaced the gasket, any issues? Also, have you retorqued the head bolts?

    Gary Starr    Posted 06-24-2018 at 17:12:45 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 8N water in oil
  • The gasket that had been in it since the 60's was another fiber Felpro. Nothing jumped out at me when looking at it. Possibly,maybe wishful thinking,thought it looked like it could be leaking around #3. Tractor has not worked hard since the 70's,does more sitting than running now days,don't see how this even came up. Head was retorqued after cooling down from first start since replacement. Not getting any steam out of exhaust now like before I replaced the head gasket. Is there somewhere else water can get in? Sleeves? No water in crankcase oil,but when I drain the oil filter it is full. Is that a tip off or is it just because I have not run it long enough?

    Tony C    Posted 06-25-2018 at 12:27:02 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Oil
  • How much water? Water water or milky oil?

    gary starr    Posted 06-25-2018 at 22:12:17 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Oil
  • Water oily water not mixed in,dipstick clean clear oil ran no more than 15 minutes. I knew what antifreeze does that's why I used plain water until I solve this. Got about a pint of water out of the filter. Did not notice any cracks in head or block since old gasket was stuck and had to clean off with a razor blade. Did not check head since there was no overheat. One thing I did notice is that one cylinder liner seemed to stand proud of the block enough for the razor blade to catch on it while cleaning. Any studs that came out when I removed the head I used sealer on when I put them back in. Hope it's not terminal,I just looked at the engine cast date it is 1-5-7

    Tony C    Posted 06-26-2018 at 10:18:51 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Oil
  • Good morning,

    THe engine is dry sleeve so it's unlikely water is intruding there.

    Was the head gasket you used sided? It would have been stamped. It's easy to miss.

    You may have to remove the head and re examine the head and block more closely. SInce the gasket is new it may be easier to determine where the leak is. If you don't find anything obvious and don't have an accurate straight edge, take the head to a machine shop for pressure testing and possibly truing. Dress the protruding liner flush with the block. You don't want any interference with the fit of the fire ring to the surfaces of the head or block.

    THe blocks are very sturdy< unless suffering freeze or mega overheat and shock cooling damage you should be OK. A lot of work to remove the pan for pressure testing the block.

    Second option is to use a block sealer. Waterglass,(sodium silicate), Blue Devil, K-Seal,etc. Do a little research and decide. THese tractors have a pressure cooling system providing the cap is good so the sealers should work. All are are a little expensive but not more than a new head gasket and possible machine work. It's a crap shoot. Big advantage for this solution is you won't have to wrestle the damn hood on and off. In spite of not being a big fan of this procedure I would give it a try.

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