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Subject: 1942 9n

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David    Posted 07-05-2018 at 19:01:19 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • 1942 9n
  • Ok I am at a loss
    I bought this tractor about a month ago she was running fine then all of a sudden she quit like I ran out of fuel.I posted earlier and thought I had the problem solved being fuel related but it did it again just stopped.So I think its still could be a fuel issue so I put on a new carb and it fired up but quit again and won't start,fuel is making it through the carb so I know its getting it.
    Really at a loss any thoughts?

    ncorrigible    Posted 07-06-2018 at 09:45:43 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 1942 9n
  • David: It is many years and many tractors since my first one - also a 2N. My very first problem occurred before Al Gore invented the internet and all the free advice here. I had the same problem you are having... apparently running out of gas. Parts were far away and I could not afford to guess, so as suggested by the others, I looked for the problem. I had no manuals, but I had a basic understanding of how engines work. Because I thought it was a gas supply problem (it ran well until it croaked and would start and run for a bit after sitting) I chased that and found the problem was leaves in the fuel tank had found the screen in the tank above the sediment bowl. My repair cost me nothing. You have the benefit of all these peoples experience and access to very good manuals. Give some consideration to the value of their advice (find the problem and fix it) rather than guess and spend until you find it. Maybe you'll even feel some pride for learning stuff along the way. Just the opinion of an old guy...

    David    Posted 07-06-2018 at 10:00:18 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 1942 9n
  • opinions especially from old guys mean a lot to me
    years of experience counts for a whole bunch in my book
    thank you I will look in the tank and look for any foreign objects

    ncorrigible    Posted 07-06-2018 at 19:16:30 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 1942 9n
  • You will not see the screen on the top of the sediment bowl from the top. Please do as Bruce suggested and at the time of failure take the plug out of the bottom of the carb and see if it fills a pint jar in 2 minutes. If it does it isn't a fuel problem - move on to spark and follow those tips. If it is a fuel problem, it is easiest to start with the screen on the brass elbow on the carb - if it is good, check the screen in the sediment bowl just above the sight glass if it is clean THEN drain the gas and remove the sediment assembly.
    Draining the gas for a problem that is further down the line would be just cause for some nasty words directed my way.

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 07-06-2018 at 05:34:03 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 1942 9n
  • HiYa David-
    Welcome to the wonderful world of Ford N-Series Tractors. Have you much experience with tractors, vintage or otherwise? If a newbie, do you have the essential owner/operator manuals? They should have been the first purchase made or at least at the same time as when you bought the tractor. You made a rookie mistake by buying a new carb and replacing the old one. No one is faulting you, we've all done that too, but chances are the original is good, just possibly needs a rebuild if one hasn't been done in awhile. These old Fords were designed and engineered so major parts could be rebuilt over and over. Most new parts sod today are made in Cheena and usually junk. Also, just taking a new part out of the box and installing it does not ensure it is been set properly. Probably not even close. If you need, I rebuild carbs, distributors, governors, water pumps, starters, generators, and more, -my email is open. Let's get started...

    A methodical, root cause problem solving technique must be initiated for any problem, whatever the situation is. In addition to a copy of Bruce(VA)'s "75 Tips for N-Owners", save a copy of "WIRING PICTOGRAMS BY JMOR" from our HOIW-TO's/ELECTRICAL forum. Jesse has shown all the CORRECT ways on which to wire these old N's regardless if 6V/POS GRN or 12V/NEG GRN. Next, Three things are required in order to run efficiently: FUEL, SPARK, and COMPRESSION. Iíll add a fourth Ė CORRECTLY WIRED. It is very important we know if you have a 6V/POS GRN system or a 12V/NEG GRN system. Is there an EI device added? Equally important is to know which model you have and are dealing with Ėchanges were made over the years and some affect how your electrical system operates. Your problem could be fuel flow -there is a simple test for that, or, possibly and more than likely an electrical issue. Running for 15 minutes and the shutting down is sometimes attributed to a bad coil Ėone that got burnt up from leaving the key switch ĎONí at shut down. If the coil got fried internally, the tar insulation melted. Then the wiring will short out and cause your engine to stop running. When you let it set for bit it cools down and the insulation solidifies again forming an insulated barrier but once it gets hot it melts away and thus shorts out and the process begins all over. If you have the original OEM 6V/POS GRN system, after s/n 12500, you should have a 1-wire/3-Brush generator, a round-can cutout circuit on lower rear steering box, a 1-wire starter with NO solenoid, and OEM Ballast Resistor, an Ammeter, the correct key switch, and a good, fully tested 6V GRP-1 battery, and ALL wired correctly. We have a ton of FREE downloads in our HOW-TO's forum and MANUALS forum as well. here's the LINK below to the WIRING PICTOGRAMS. Start here with the basic baby steps and do a lot of reading. Also, don't buy any more new parts until the root cause is determined, and then only if any are needed in the first place. If you have fuel flow, then the next step is electrical, and it is my gut feeling therein lies your problem.

    FORD 9N/2N WIRING DIAGRAM ĖAFTER S/N 12500:

    FORD N-SERIES TRACTOR CARBURETOR; 9N-9510-A; MARVEL-SCHEBLER TSX-33:



    FORD 9N & 2N TRACTOR ESSENTIAL OWNER/OPERATOR MANUALS:

    Tim Daley(MI)

    David    Posted 07-06-2018 at 09:03:11 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 1942 9n
  • Yes thank you for the responses
    I am a complete newby to tractors and the tractor storage is unknown before I bought it but I kept it stored inside
    I can tell you this it has a 8 v battery installed instead of a 6 v and had the points and condenser and ignition switch replaced before I got it
    I do have the original ignition switch
    the wire harness looks as though it has seen better days it has electrical tape and splices in it
    It was running just fine then just stopped running and won;t start now
    thanks again
    David

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 07-08-2018 at 07:43:57 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 1942 9n
  • Yep, those are some of the typical issues that come with old age and/or not running for a long time. You probably will be going thru each system, but take it one step at a time. If you perform the basic fuel flow test first, that'll tell you if the fuel system is plugged somewhere, leaves in tank or not. Yu can do a quick visual in tank with your Mini-Mag flashlight just to see if there is something. It's been reported that rags, tools, and mice have ended up in there as well as dirt and rust. If fuel flow test passes, move on to electrical/spark test. Best to go through the wiring first just to ensure wires at least are connected to where they are supposed to be connected to. You can deal with replacing the harness later since you say it had been running. I'd seriously think about trading in that 8 battery for a new, good GRP-1 6V battery. You say you have new points and condenser -what about plugs? How do they look? You mean the ignition key switch on the steering column or the starter button on the trans shift cover? New parts can be bad out of the box these day, especially the cheap clones and/or non-original type. Key switch should only have two wires. bay steps, and keep us updated...

    Tim Daley(MI)

    David    Posted 07-08-2018 at 09:17:18 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 1942 9n
  • Thanks for the tips again
    I was wondering about the 8 v battery seemed odd to me from the git go
    he also instructed me to remove the pos battery cable as insurance from burning up the points in the dist I wonder if that did more harm than good also from what I have been reading the wiring on the resistor is different from any of the diagrams I have seen
    there is only two wires going to it most of the diagrams I have seen there are all three posts being used Yes the ignition key switch was replaced I have a new set of plugs and a new coil that I will put on after I see if there is spark

    HCooke    Posted 07-08-2018 at 07:35:22 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 1942 9n
  • David, 8 volt battery could be your problem. The 8 volt was probably put on the tractor to make the engine turn over faster and start easier. There is no way that you charging system can keep an 8 volt battery charged. So after a while you end up with a weak battery and a no spark condition. Do as the others suggested, check for fuel flow and also for spark. If the spark is weak check the battery with a hygrometer. If the battery is not fully charged, I would would replace it with a new 6 volt battery. I am not aware of any way to charge up an 8 volt battery. Good luck and please let us know how this turns out.

    Bruce (VA)    Posted 07-05-2018 at 20:26:37 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 1942 9n
  • 6 volt or 12 volt?


    Donít guess at the cause of the problem; guessing can get expensive. And leave you breathless chasing every guess.......it could be this, it could be that......just troubleshoot the problem and leave the guess work for buying Lottery tickets.

    The one way that I found the best results with is to take a systematic, step-by-step approach to solving the problem, working from most likely to least likely. The trick to fixing these tractors (or trouble shooting any piece of equipment) is to be systematic about it. You need to isolate the problem step by step and work from most likely to least likely. Jumping ahead to 'so-and-so said it could be whatever' or just replacing parts usually just wastes your time and your money. I know it did for me.

    Remember, it takes three things for an engine to run: spark at the right time, compression, & fuel in the right mixture. For the moment, forget about compression & concentrate on narrowing the problem to fuel or spark. If you donít do that, you are going to end up chasing your tail around that tractor & spending a boatload of money to fix what could easily be a loose wire or faulty ignition switch.

    As soon as the tractor stops running, not 5 minutes later, check for spark and fuel. (see tip # 13)

    You need to answer 2 questions before you do anything else:

    With the bolt in the carb bowl removed and the gas on, will the fuel flow fill a pint jar in less than 2 minutes?

    Next, get out your adjustable gap spark checker * , open the gap to 1/4", hook it up, turn the key on and crank the engine. Does the spark jump 1/4"? Post back with the answers.

    And do not buy a new part for the tractor until you can answer this question: how do I know the part on the tractor is defective?

    * Don't own an adjustable gap spark checker? Buy one! Not a test light! Until then, take an old plug, open the gap 1/4" ground it to the head & look for spark. Itís not the color of the spark that counts; itís the distance it jumps.


    https://www.amazon.com/AMPRO-T71240-Energy-Ignition-Tester/dp/B00A8FO87S/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1513273147&sr=8-4-fkmr1&keywords=ampro+spark+checker


    David    Posted 07-05-2018 at 20:56:44 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 1942 9n
  • I like to be systematic as well however the tractor and me are 60 miles apart so when I write here I am no where near the tractor and running for parts is not easy
    it is still the 6 volt system and just quit running like a fuse blew or it ran out of gas I put a new carb on because the old on had a leak in it the plugs look as though they are original
    thank you for the helpful tips I will keep you all updated when I find out or cure this problem

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 07-06-2018 at 06:03:01 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 1942 9n
  • Read the manuals and documents described in my post above. Where was the old carb leaking? It could have just had stuck float, another reason for a complete rebuild, and not to just replace it with a new one. If you had an original TSX rebuilt carb or a good one from a running tractor to swap out, that would have been the more logical test. Plugs - by "look original" -do you mean the outside or the actual electrode? The original Ford sparkplug spec is the 14mm Champion H10. Since then, Champion came out with a hotter plug, the H12 (512 now) and another brand, the AUTO-LITE 437 (216) Plug is equally good and either one will work. But,for now, just keep this in mind, you will determine the root cause problem before just swapping out plugs and other things. Once you get problem solved, and the problem could indeed turn out to be a long overdue tune-up. Never throw away original parts. As mentioned, I will rebuild your old M/S TSX- carb -my email is open. Next time you drive 60 miles to work on the tractor, you will have done some homework, and have the essential manuals/documents of which to proceed. The written documents are every bit as important as any wrench in your arsenal. Keep in mind that 90% of all non-starting/non-running issues are due to poor/incorrect/cobbled-up wiring jobs regardless if 6V or 12V. Just because you have a 6V battery installed does not mean it is wired correctly. Get the fuel issue resolved first. Engine OFF and COLD, the simple fuel flow test can be performed. Next would be spark, but you will go thru the entire electrical system first and verify it is wired correctly. There's no sense doing a spark test if the wiring is all boogered up. Hope this helps you out so now you have a lot to absorb. One final thought: Is the tractor stored inside or outside?

    Tim Daley(MI)

    Rusty 2N    Posted 07-05-2018 at 19:48:43 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 1942 9n
  • Check out the 75 tips in the how to page found in the red bar at top of this page.

    David    Posted 07-08-2018 at 09:36:13 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 1942 9n
  • it is also set up with a neg ground is this correct I mean it was running ?

    David    Posted 07-08-2018 at 09:34:47 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 1942 9n
  • from all the wiring diagrams I have seen on my tractor
    9n97xxx I see the use of a cut out relay or a voltage regulator
    I can not see one on my tractor unless I just haven't seen it yet

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