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Subject: ford 9n

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David    Posted 07-10-2018 at 21:38:19 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • ford 9n
  • I have been having issues with my 1942 Ford 9n
    have talked and posted here and have gotten many helpful tips on my problem of the tractor not starting
    I installed a new carb and adjusted it and had my tractor running for a bit and even managed a bit of work out of it but now it died again and did not start
    I have been through the wiring which by all diagrams I have seen is no where near what it should be
    my biggest concern is it has a negative ground and by most all I have read on the wiring it should have a positive ground
    Should I switch this to a positive ground or leave it as is because it was running before
    I have a new harness on the way and a new ignition tune up kit and relay with a new keyed ignition
    so far I have replaced the carb and the plugs inspected the distributor and there is a small crack it the housing for the distributor

    Rustyal    Posted 07-11-2018 at 09:34:08 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: ford 9n
  • Check for spark at the spark plug and fuel out the bottom of the carburetor. Negative ground is okay. Your carburetor should be good as long as the gas tank is not full of rust.

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 07-11-2018 at 04:51:59 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: ford 9n
  • These N's will run on POS ground or NEG ground, so like JMOR said, don't introduce another unknown into the equation right now. The original FORD electrical systems were 6V/POS GRN, used a generator with a cutout, after s/n 12500, (the 8N and after used a voltage regulator), and must have the OEM Ballast Resistor in the circuit whether still 6V/POS GRN or has had a 12V/NEG GRN switch over job done. A true 12V job will use an alternator, replacing the generator, and removing the cutout/VR altogether. Some fellas just swap out the battery and this will work -12V will spin the starter faster. Also, stop replacing old parts with new until you determine the true root cause(s) of your problem. Let's start with the carb. A simple fuel flow test should have been preformed first. If fuel flow fails, then troubleshooting the problem in the fuel system would be logical, but doesn’t include swapping out carbs. Do you still have the original old one? If so, they are usually my first choice to rebuild as they were meant to be. Many new aftermarket parts sold today are junk out the door. If you need help, I have rebuilt hundreds of these and can do your original –my email is open. Ditto with distributors as well. If your base is cracked where is the crack? If you need another distributor, I have a few all rebuilt and ready to go. You are on the semi-righteous path of problem solving – “…electrical/wiring is nowhere near what it should be”. A new wiring harness is going to help, but only if it is wired correctly. A tune-up kit is also fine, but hold off on that too until more tests are done. How do the plugs look? Wet or dry? When tractor dies, need to check for spark right then. If plugs are fairly new, and wet, just dry off with an electric match/firestarter device and gently brush off carbon with a toothbrush or brass brush, recheck gap, and reuse. Wet plugs means they got fouled. Dry plus could be a no spark issue. Get a copy of Bruce(VA)’s ‘75 Tips For N-Owners’ if not already done. It sounds like you may already have the “WIRING PICTOGRAMS by JMOR” document so using those and the essential owner/operator manuals, you can further diagnose the problems. You will have to determine which system you want to go with -6V or 12V and then proceed from there. While you go thru the entire wiring system, remove the battery, get it tested and replaced if needed, but do not install it until wiring is corrected. Starter shops and auto parts stores can bench test the battery. Leave the new ignition key switch out for now too. I suspect you probably have some sort of 12V switch over job and, like many, are done incorrectly. Before doing anything, sketch out what you have wired now. Visually determine what voltage the battery is first. A 6-Volt battery has Three Cells, a 12V battery has Six Cells if there are no markings on the case. Determine if there is a generator and cutout or an alternator in the circuit. Starter shop can bench test all of those as well. Decide what you want to go with. Take baby steps, it sounds like you are heading in the right direction

    Tim Daley(MI)

    JMOR    Posted 07-10-2018 at 22:26:38 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: ford 9n
  • No reason to switch the ground as you will introduce another unknown and it will function equally well either pos or neg.

    David    Posted 07-11-2018 at 11:47:08 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: ford 9n
  • found the problem this time a broken resistor
    I am confused about most of the diagrams I have seen
    most show a generator and some sort of relay or cut out switch
    mine has a generator with what I think is a cut out switch on it
    and 1 black wire going through the loom to the starter switch
    everything I have seen do not show it this way
    I see something that looks similar but on the left side of motor and
    with no pulley on it

    JMOR    Posted 07-11-2018 at 12:18:49 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: ford 9n
  • I can't figure what you describe on left. Can you post or e-mail me a picture or two?

    David    Posted 07-11-2018 at 13:33:02 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: ford 9n
  • I am referencing the Ford Shop manual FO-4
    on page 18 there is an illustration at the bottom of the page
    if you look at what represents the right and left side of tractor on the right
    side they have a what is on my left side where the generator is but they have it where my starter is
    or my generator looks just like their starter
    hope you can make sense out of that

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 07-11-2018 at 15:23:52 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: ford 9n
  • David-
    First, not all I&T F-04 Manuals are the same so Page 18 will vary what is on it. Mine shows the 9N/2N Steering Gear. You need to understand the differences between the starter and the generator. The generator is mounted on the RH side of the engine, ahead of the carburetor, has a pulley with a fan belt fastened on, and powers the water pump as well as charging the battery. On all 9N, 2N, and 8Ns, the starter is on the LH side of the engine. ALL 9N and 2N starters use no solenoid. They only have 1-Wire connected. All 9N’s, after s/n 12500, and all 2Ns use a 1-wire/3-Brush generator. ALL 9Ns, after s/n 12500, and ALL 2Ns use the round can cutout circuit mounted on the lower steering box on the back of the dash panel. There is a starter switch push button mounted on the top of the shifter cover at the base of the steering column. Do not confuse this starter switch/button with a starter solenoid. Remember, all 9N and 2N models do not use a starter solenoid. Here are some manual scans and photos to help you visualize things better.

    ORIGINAL BALLAST RESISTOR:

    9N/2N ELECTRICAL DIAGRAM:


    9N/2N ELECTRICAL SCHEMATIC:

    9N/2N ORIGINAL ROUND-CAN CUTOUT CIRCUIT:

    FORD TRACTOR FRONT MOUNT DISTRIBUTOR FIRING ORDER:

    FORD 9N/2N GENERATOR SHOWN WITH THE BELT TENSIONING BRACKET:

    FORD 9N/2N STARTER – 1-WIRE/3-BRUSH TYPE, LH MOUNT:

    Tim Daley(MI)

    David    Posted 07-11-2018 at 15:59:46 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: ford 9n
  • yes that is why the confusion on my end
    my generator has what I think is a cut out switch on it
    it is no where else on the tractor believe me I looked
    so what should I do get an original generator and install a
    cutout switch or leave it as is and wire accordingly

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 07-11-2018 at 19:01:56 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: ford 9n
  • Yes, some guys have installed Model A or early V8 generators on their Ns -with the Cutout mounted on the barrel. Those have outputs much greater than the N generator rated at 11.5 AMPS. Also, some fellas put 8N starters with the solenoid on their 9N and 2n models too. So you need to verify exactly what you have first. I have some original generators and just finished rebuilding a 2N-10000 unit that will work on your 9N. You need to decide if you want to keep it 6V or invest in doing a correct 12V conversion. Either way you will be investing some $$$ to get it running and running right. My email is open...

    Tim Daley(MI)

    David    Posted 07-11-2018 at 13:21:23 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: ford 9n
  • next time I am near the tractor I will snap a photo
    I will try and look through my manuals to find a pic to reference you all to

    JMOR    Posted 07-11-2018 at 13:44:20 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: ford 9n
  • Expect to look like 9N10000C or 2N10000 in pix. As you sit in seat, generator should be on the right.

    David    Posted 07-11-2018 at 14:01:37 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: ford 9n
  • not sure what to tell you
    mine has something on top of it like is depicted in that illustration

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 07-14-2018 at 06:44:07 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: ford 9n
  • History on the 9N/2N Generator:
    The first, early 9N-10000 generator, a 2-Wire/2-Brush, 'B' Circuit design unit, output rating 7 AMPS, used a square voltage regulator, p/n 9N-10505 [A] -see photo. It was mounted on the back of the dash, on the lower steering box. Before the end of 1939, charging issues forced Ford engineers to revamp things and the new 9N-10000-B generator was released in April, 1940, on or about s/n 9N-12500. This was a 1-Wire/3-Brush, 'A' circuit design unit, output rating 7 AMPS. This unit now used the round-can cutout circuit, 9N-10505-B -see photo. The 3rd brush was adjusted by a small black slider button on the back plate. It had simply a "HI-LO" setting, no rheostat type adjusting -see JMOR's photo. Charging issues still persisted and thus yet another revamp was performed. In August, 1940, on or about s/n 9N-18000, the 9N-10000-C generator was released. It was now a larger barrel, larger armature unit, but still a 1-Wire/3-Brush "A' circuit design type only the output rating was at 11.5 AMPS. This unit was used up until 1945. WWII would limit domestic production and thus material restrictions imposed by the US War Board kept precious commodities like copper, zinc, aluminum, iron and steel, amongst others, strictly for war ordinance. On January 15, 1945, the new 2N-10000 generator was released. Ford engineers had finally realized the charging issues were due to no belt tension. Up until now, the generator was simply secured on with a single pivot/mounting bolt. Under load in the field, the generator would loosen itself up and thus unable to charge the battery. Many a farmer would end up stranded at the end of the day if not sooner with a dead battery because of this. The tractor operator would need to stop every few hours to tighten up the generator and belt tension if he wasn't aware of this problem. The 2N-10000 generator was virtually the same as the 9N-10000-C generator except it now came with the belt adjustment device bolted to the barrel. A 2 piece device, the spring loaded part was fastened to the barrel and a second 'L'-shaped bracket with a special nut fastened to two head bolts/studs on the front of the cylinder head -see photo. At the same time, a new kit was offered for attaching the device to the prior 9N-10000-C generator only using a steel band around the barrel. The 2N-10000 generator would be used for the duration of 2N production which ceased by January 1, 1947. On July 7, 1947,teh new 8N Model was released and it now had another generator revamp. It was a 3-Wire/3-Brush, 'A' Circuit design unit, rated at 11.5 AMPS output and now used square voltage regulator mounted on the RH back dash near the Oil Pressure Gauge. Whew! A long post but I hope this clarifies a lot of things for you.

    FORD TRACTOR P/N 2N-10181-B GENERATOR BELT ADJUSTMENT KIT:

    FORD TRACTOR 2N-10000 GENERATOR w/BELT TENSIONING DEVICE:

    FORD 9N-10505-A VOLTAGE REGULATOR –USED ONLY ON EARLY ’39 9Ns UNTIL s/n 9N-12500:

    FORD TRACTOR 9N-10505-B CUTOUT UNIT, USED ON ALL AFTER s/n 9N-12500:

    Tim Daley(MI)

    JMOR    Posted 07-11-2018 at 14:45:35 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: ford 9n
  • Some one could have installed a generator from another tractor, truck or automobile, such as this one with a cut out on it. Some have had regulators mounted on them, or round can cut out, but they are not factory N tractor set up.

    David    Posted 07-11-2018 at 17:31:24 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: ford 9n
  • yes that is why the confusion on my end
    my generator has what I think is a cut out switch on it
    it is no where else on the tractor believe me I looked
    so what should I do get an original generator and install a
    cutout switch or leave it as is and wire accordingly

    Jerry    Posted 07-12-2018 at 12:31:43 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: ford 9n
  • I am particularly fond of these guys (in link) DB Electrical

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