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Subject: Cast Iron Front Mount Distributors????

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Farmer Dan    Posted 10-21-2018 at 17:52:25 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Cast Iron Front Mount Distributors????
  • I know the 9N12131 base with a circle 2 casting mark do not have the vents in them. The circle 3 bases do have two vents in them. Some have the part number cast into the some don't. So what is the the circle around a number trying to tell us? Is that a casting code or a revision? And how do I determine if they were ever made in cast steel and when did aluminum start? Would a blueprint of part number 9N12131 tell me what the base was made of?

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 10-24-2018 at 08:06:53 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • MORE DISTRIBUTOR INFO TO DIGEST
  • The July, 1947 MPC (the 1st 8N parts book) nor any previous issue, shows or lists a breaker dust cover, p/n 9N-12276. The May, 1949 MPC does show and list it. Ditto too for the May, 1950 MPC. Now, on John Smith’s now archived Tractor Site, in “Tractor ID/HISTORY” he states that the dust cover wasn’t added until 1951 at or around s/n 403489. I usually agree with most everything John said on these N’s, but not this time. The MPC’s would have pretty much the definitive info listed. In addition, the ’51 models now used the angle mount unit, but, since the dust cover was released earlier, it was just a new part to be used with all the previous model years using the front mount tractors from ’39 thru early ’50. Note it carries the ‘9N’ part prefix, and designates used “…’39 – ’49…”. That is because it would be first used on the 9N module, (p/n 9N-12200 ass’y) beginning in 1939. In April, 1950, at s/n 263844, when FORD went to the angle mount distributor, there was no breaker dust cover. The FAA-12239 dust cover was added on the NAA side distributor.

    Tim Daley(MI)

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 10-22-2018 at 08:57:43 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Cast Iron Front Mount Distributors????
  • Here's how I perceive the MPC's and parts. First, I have two OEM 9N12131 in cast raised character bases with the circled (2). They both have the metal/4-hole vent & drain caps on them. The 2 is, in my opinion, a casting/mold number. It wouldn't be a part revision number. Revisions would carry a letter suffix code. A 'B' suffix indicates there was an earlier 'A' version. A part would obtain the 'A' suffix only when a later version was released to distinguish them apart. I think that any base without the FORD p/n is an aftermarket type, but could be wrong. Suppliers not licensed by FORD could not legally use the Ford part number on their parts. FORD was meticulous about having their logo and part numbers on most of their parts. However, the May, 1950 MPC lists the new 8N-12130 -base, angle drive part. The base casting basic p/n changed from 12131 to 12130 because it was now the angle drive unit. Why? the prefix "8N" would indicate it was a different part altogether. A recent OEM distributor spotted on ebay has the cast raised casting number and a circled (3), but no vent and drain plugs, only solid cast bosses. An original drawing of the cast base part 9N-12131 should indeed have the material spec on it, all revisions noted on it and/or the EI box. Early 9N parts were being changed often and some fell thru the parts books cracks. The 6-Loop Rims are a prime example. MPC's usually only list part assembly numbers, and not many casting part numbers. All of my MPC's, and I have hard copies of them all, only show the distributor assembly as p/n 9N-12000 with no suffix. That doesn't mean the base material spec isn't recognized, it only would be shown on the casting drawing. The basic distributor assembly and construction didn't change until the angle mount unit, a completely different animal, and thus a new part number, 8N-12127. I have never heard of a steel base front mount distributor. FWIW, the early 9N governors were cast iron, changed to aluminum housings, I think after the war, or perhaps earlier maybe '43 after the war board lifted restrictions. Drawings hold a wealth of information, but many early ones don't exist. I'm just spitballin' here, but I think when a part became obsolete, often times the original drawing was archived deep six, or destroyed altogether. Randy can probably answer this better.

    Tim Daley(MI)

    Farmer Dan    Posted 10-22-2018 at 10:13:59 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Cast Iron Front Mount Distributors????
  • This is aggravating. Now that I'm retired and have time to do research I have no resources. I have 7 parts manuals and none of them show 9N12130 or 9N12131. I know 8N12130 is for the angle drive distributor so that's no interest to me. But when I have 4 distributors with 9N12131 cast into them I should be able to find that number in at least one parts manual. My manuals show 9N12139 as the base which brings up the question of what happened to 9N12131? and why is there no bases running around with 9N12139 cast into them?

    I'm reading something wrong ain't I?

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 10-23-2018 at 09:18:05 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Cast Iron Front Mount Distributors????
  • If you notice in the MPC's, the part numbers often jump in sequential order with missing numbers. This is partly because there are casting numbers and machined part numbers in between that do not get documented in a parts manual. They're not really needed for the consumer to know. The end user only needs to know what part or assembly he has or needs. Only the manufacturer/supplier needs the casting and machining numbers. Until now. Yeah, it can be frustrating.

    Tim Daley(MI)

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 10-22-2018 at 13:12:56 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Cast Iron Front Mount Distributors????
  • Dan, those are just the casting numbers, and they don't list very many at all in MPC's. The p/n 9N-12139 is the base and clamp ASSEMBLY number. Note too p/n 9N-12100 - is the distributor assembly, less coil. The 8N-12130 is the angle mount distributor ASSEMBLY number, not the base casting number. Though some front mount units have the cast raised casting number on the back base end, I find it strange there is no FORD script logo cast anywhere on the unit, on any that I've seen anyway. FORD was usually pretty good about ID'g parts with their logo. Now I'm wondering if the circled 2 and 3 may have been supplier ID marks. The 9N-12131 drawing would provide a lot if not all the answers to these questions. It may, or may not, have the note that the part number and FORD logo to be 'cast raised in this area', or even say 'vendor ID optional here'. Have you asked Don & Derek Barkley if the complete set of 9N blueprints they have includes one for the distributor? See, we learn new stuff all the time on these N's... ; > )...ain't this fun!!!

    Tim Daley(MI)

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 10-22-2018 at 14:08:37 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • ALSO - - -
  • I forgot to mention too, just to throw another monkey into the wrench, that in manufacturing, the process usually involves a part drawing for the casting with all the dimensions and info needed to cast the part. Next comes the machining blueprint/drawing with all the machined dimensions drawn and toleranced with any and all other pertinent info like material spec and heat treat. For example, if a part is to be heat treated, standard machining practices are to tap holes + .005" over nominal to compensate for shrinkage at heat treat. Then there will be an assembly drawing comprising all the individual parts that go on it. EACH of these blueprints/drawings will have its own number. So, that being said, there could still yet be another drawing for this part -the machining drawing. Many parts stand alone as is with their machined drawing being the part drawing. An example is p/n 8N-10145,generator tension arm. Since there is no casting, the part is made from standard Cold Rolled Steel flat stock, as defined on the drawing under mat'l spec, the machined finished part is the actual part number. It then becomes part of the generator assembly, p/n 8N-10000, which is not marked on the unit, only listed in MPC's. Often guys see the part number of the front mounting bracket, cast recessed as p/n 8N-10139, and think this is the generator number. It is not. The number is actually only the casting number of the bracket itself. The entire bracket assembly is 8N-10138 ASSEMBLED with all the other parts. Believe it or not, there is a method to this madness. We won't go into final supplier/distributor part numbers and their numbering codes and systems.

    Tim Daley(MI)

    Farmer Dan    Posted 10-22-2018 at 16:09:28 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Library
  • Wish I could find an original set of prints/drawings that was for sale. Took several phone calls but I did find out that the Benson Ford Research Center has the original 1939 drawings on micro film. If I wasn't tied to this damn wheel chair I would drive over there and get busy with their viewer and plotter. Right now I can order them one at a time but like you said it's hard to get those millennials to do anything.

    TheOldHokie    Posted 10-22-2018 at 17:39:36 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Library
  • How does one go about ordering one of those prints?

    TOH

    Farmer Dan    Posted 10-22-2018 at 18:55:03 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Library
  • read this:
    https://www.thehenryford.org/collections-and-research/digital-resources/popular-topics/ford-parts-drawings/

    Download this form:

    https://www.thehenryford.org/docs/default-source/default-document-library/parts_form.pdf?sfvrsn=2

    TheOldHokie    Posted 10-24-2018 at 05:33:13 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Library
  • Order went out in yesterday's mail. Quoted lead time on the website is 1-2 weeks and I am in no rush. I requested a print of the 8N transmssion case (part number 8N-7005-C) which I suspect may have been more than one page. I only sent them $30 so we shall see what I get for it.

    TOH

    TheOldHokie    Posted 10-22-2018 at 19:12:51 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Library
  • Thanks. I had already found the form and filled out an order ;-) Simple and inexpensive if you only need a drawing or two. A complete set would get a little pricey....

    TOH

    Randy(PA)    Posted 10-21-2018 at 23:11:21 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Cast Iron Front Mount Distributors????
  • The only drawing remaining in the system carries the -B3 suffix, which I presume to point to one supplier, drawn in 1944 and last revised in 1946. Material specified is Aluminum, Ford material code "M1588 or equivalent". 9N-12130-B3 (shown on same dwg) was the assembly with the bushing installed and burnished to .8635/.8640 dia.

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