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Subject: no spark

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mark    Posted 12-13-2018 at 23:00:44 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • no spark
  • I have a 9N, front distributer and have no spark at the plugs. It has been converted to 12v, and the coil was recently replaced. Points are working and spaced appropriately. Ammeter has been bypassed, no idea why. What am I missing (besides the spark)?

    Jack - Iowa    Posted 12-15-2018 at 08:45:01 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: no spark
  • I agree with R. Geiger! Fix the problem and don't worry about the other stuff until later. It may all need done but now is not the time.

    Do the simple things first. Have you burnished the points? They will corrode setting there. I actually file them but that will raise another discussion. A quarter placed across the ballast resistor (if it still has one) will give a boost to the spark.

    After that either a test light or a meter and check, one step at a time.

    Good Luck,

    Jack

    K.LaRue-VA    Posted 12-14-2018 at 13:26:28 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: no spark
  • "converted to 12v"
    "coil was recently replaced"
    "points are working and spaced appropriately"

    Why was the coil replaced? Is the new coil exactly the same as the last one that worked with that conversion? Were the points tested and confirmed to OPEN and CLOSE electrically with a test light or meter? Is the coiled springy terminal on the coil making contact with the special bolt on the points?

    r geiger    Posted 12-14-2018 at 12:02:05 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: no spark
  • Probably as simple as needing a new set of points, don't get confused by all the information on the wiring, if it has been running for 10 years like that , it is not your problem.

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 12-15-2018 at 05:21:12 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: no spark
  • Yes, I would agree a tune-up on the distributor is vital. With that, a GOOD battery, AND CORRECT Wiring, you will get the tractor running, guaranteed.

    Tim Daley(MI)

    mark    Posted 12-14-2018 at 10:57:41 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: no spark
  • Thanks all for the quick replies and direction. I have had this tractor for 10 years and it has run great - most of the time. This one has me stymied. The wiring has not been changed since it ran last. Got it going last Spring with help from an old Navy buddy visiting from Alaska (points had closed). Moved it this fall, then POW - nothing. I do have the I&T Shop Manual. I'll post follow up as I go. Again, Thanks.

    Rustyal    Posted 12-14-2018 at 10:34:39 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: no spark
  • You can take a voltage meter and check to see what you have going to the coil. Also check for a short to ground in the distributor. The insulator at the points in the distributor is a common no spark problem. Also the points having a coating such as corrosion is common. Like Tim said the battery needs to be charged 100 percent.

    Bob in KS    Posted 12-14-2018 at 10:05:49 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: no spark
  • "Ammeter has been bypassed, no idea why"

    Has the ammeter actually been bypassed? 9N and 2N used an ammeter where the charge wire passed across the back of the meter and was held close to the meter by a couple of tabs but did not have a physical connection to the meter itself.

    mark    Posted 12-14-2018 at 10:45:17 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: no spark
  • The back of the ammeter has two posts with a hot wire connected to one side only. There are three wire connected to the one post. Looks like they just used it as a junction to tie them together.

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 12-14-2018 at 10:55:24 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: no spark
  • As I suspected, the wiring is all mucked up. The two screw terminal post ammeter needs connections to both sides. It doesn't work does it? Refer to the OEM wiring diagrams. The wire thru the LOOP is cut and each side of the screw style ammeter gets it rewired onto. If reading is backwards, shows a - discharge rather than a + charge, reverse the wires. AMMETERS are not polarized.


    OEM 30/30 LOOP AMMETER & AFTERMARKET 2 SCREW TERMINAL TYPE:



    Tim Daley(MI)

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 12-14-2018 at 10:44:39 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: no spark
  • You are referring to the 2nd revision, original Induction or LOOP style AMMETER. It was released after the first 4000 9Ns that used the screw terminal type 20/20 AMMETER.The LOOP was just that. A metal loop was on the back of the gauge whereby the wire fed thru it, with no other connections required. It worked by basic electrical induction function. Accuracy was about 20%.

    ORIGINAL 9N-10850-A AMMETER; 20/20 AMP, 4 SCREW TERMINAL UNIT:

    OEM 30/30 AMMETER; INDUCTION/LOOP UNIT, USED AFTER S/N 9N-4000:

    OEM 30/30 LOOP AMMETER & AFTERMARKET 2 SCREW TERMINAL TYPE:


    Tim Daley(MI)

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 12-14-2018 at 07:18:33 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: no spark
  • HiYa Mark-
    Welcome aboard the NTC! Was the tractor running prior to your 'no spark' issue? Did you change anything? Chances are that your 9N 12-volt switch over job was done incorrectly, I surmise; "...ammeter has been bypassed..." makes me think more than it was bypassed. You can find a lot of DIY documents and information in our HOW-TO's forum. One very important document there, under "ELECTRICAL", was put together by a long time member here who is a certified electrician and knows these old Fords well. Click on the LINK below to see JMOR's Wiring Pictograms. JM has created a great document showing all the CORRECTY ways to wire these old N's whether 6V/POS GRN or a 12V switch job. There is a little bit involved than just swapping out the battery to a 12V unit. The distributor is a key element. Just setting the ignition breaker points to .015" is only the first step. Did you test the distributor before re-mounting it? Is the OEM Ballast Resistor in the circuit? Is the coil a 6V unit or a 12V unit? Is the generator and cutout removed and an alternator installed? The battery specific gravity must test good. The battery must sustain a full charge under load to be effective. Your local starter shop or auto parts store can bench test it fast and for free. If your square coil on your front mount distributor is 6-Volts, you must use an in-line external ceramic 1 (OHM) resistor. If you invest in a square 12V coil, you do not need to add the 1 ceramic part. Realize that 99.98% of all non-starting issue with these old Fords is due to incorrect wiring jobs whether 6V or 12V. Begin by getting the battery tested and going thru the entire ELECTRICAL WIRING system. No OEM parts get removed on a 12V system other than the generator and cutout. Verify wiring is correct. Verify the distributor is working -remove it and go thru step by step. Firing order is 1,2,4,3 CCW. Get the essential manuals. The I&T F-04 Manual is very important tool. Here are some original wiring diagrams for the 9N/2N tractor. Use them for a guide as well. Certify that the ignition key switch, the neutral safety starter button/switch, the ammeter, the starter motor, and the Ballast Resistor are all in the circuit wired as OEM. Spark plugs, Champion H10 or H12, or Auto-Lite 437 spark plugs gapped at .025" - .028". Once the wiring is certified to be correct, you will perform the fuel flow test. If you need help with your front mount distributor, Farmer Dan, dedicated member here, rebuilds them. You can email me if you want more info. Baby steps. Report back with results.

    FORD 9N/2N TRACTOR OEM 6V/POS GRN WIRING DIAGRAMS:


    FORD TRACTOR FRONT-MOUNT DISTRIBUTOR FIRING ORDER; 1,2,4,3 CCW:

    FORD TRACTOR OEM BALLAST RESISTOR, USED w/ FRONT MOUNT DISTRIBUTOR:

    EXTERNAL 1-OHM CERAMIC RESISTOR, USED ONLY WITH THE 6V COIL & 12V CONVERSION:

    Tim Daley(MI)

    Jim    Posted 12-14-2018 at 08:44:43 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: no spark
  • Tim, looking at JMOR's pictograms I don't see one for the 3 wire alternator, only the one wire. What am I missing? I have a Jube with the 12 volt conversion negative ground with a 6 volt coil and the 3 wire alt. I also have a later 8N that has been converted and both need to be rewired as present wiring pretty ragged. Thanks

    Ultradog MN    Posted 12-14-2018 at 17:18:34 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: no spark
  • Jim,
    The simplest universal diagram for a 3 wire alternator is at the link below. There is also some interesting info there about alternaters and such there.

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 12-14-2018 at 09:14:09 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: no spark
  • HiYa Jim-
    Yes, you are correct. There is some stuff here in our How-To's but this might help -


    Tim Daley(MI)

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 12-14-2018 at 09:40:19 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • ALSO
  • Jim -I got your email so for your Jube I highly suggest you get a 12V coil. Poor/incorrect wiring is 99.98% of all non-starting issues and mostly with 12V conversions, but there are 6V/POS GRN systems wired incorrectly as well, just not very many. I also prefer the DELCO 1-Wire alternators, just less headaches. Like I always say, whether 6V/POS GRN or 12V/NEG GRN, if the wiring is not correct, plan on having non-starting/non-running issues. Lighting kits wired incorrectly too are a big cause of problems. A lot of guys try and take shortcuts by eliminating parts like neutral safety start buttons, ammeters, and key switches. Some think they know a better way, some just don't know what they are doing and wing it, and then some rely on someone else doing the job.

    BE SAFE & DO THE JOB RIGHT THE FIRST TIME:



    Tim Daley(MI)

    Jim    Posted 12-14-2018 at 11:46:30 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: ALSO
  • Tim, do the present day one wire alternators require the tractor be running at a certain rpm before it will begin charging or is there a work around? thanks so much.

    Farmer Dan    Posted 12-14-2018 at 10:46:11 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: ALSO
  • When I first bought Maude (1940 9N) the seller knocked the price down because she wouldn't start. I ran a wire from the coil to the battery held it on with wooden clothes pins and drove her home. Later totally rewired everything 12 volt negative ground. I got lucky 20 years later and no problems. Knock on wood.

    Jim    Posted 12-14-2018 at 11:38:10 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: ALSO
  • But do they still make clothes pins like they did in the "good old days"? Seriously, thanks

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 12-14-2018 at 17:37:01 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: ALSO
  • Not like the old OEM wood ones. I hear the cheap plastic Cheena made ones don't last and can be junk out of the box.... ; > )


    TPD

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