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Subject: Update on the lift repair

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Kimberly    Posted 03-20-2019 at 19:16:39 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Update on the lift repair
  • I got the lift cover off. I tried picking it up by hand and found that no way would I be able to lift that cover off high enough for the control arm to clear. However, the hoist made it a dream to lift; just press a button. I removed the cylinder and took photos. I didn't get a good shot of the inside of the cylinder but hopefully it can give some indication. The O-ring on the piston was pretty flat; it probably wasn't doing a good job of sealing. The work table is pretty nice; a gift from my brothers. It has a steel frame and the top can be raised or lowered mechanically with a 220v motor. It has heavy casters that makes moving it around easy.

    tractor_lift_cover_hanging.jpg


    tractor_lift_cover_inverted.jpg


    tractor_sump.jpg


    tractor_cylinder.jpg


    tractor_piston_1.jpg


    tractor_piston_2.jpg


    tractor_piston_3.jpg

    Kimberly    Posted 03-20-2019 at 22:38:23 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Update on the lift repair
  • One think I noticed is the wear on the piston. The piston should have two grooves for two O-rings to keep it more centred in the bore and prevent the piston from rocking in the bore.

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 03-21-2019 at 03:04:57 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Update on the lift repair
  • Just curious -did you perform the leak test before you got into this? Your cylinder doesn't look bad at all and the way you were posting about the bent control arm and grooved and sandblasted cylinder, I know I for one assumed we were looking at your current system. The NAA Piston only has one groove. The rubber O-Ring uses a leather or neoprene backup washer/wiper behind the O-Ring and I don't see one. O-Rings are for creating a seal. They don't 'center' anything and there's no 'rocking'. You may get by with a basic valve chamber cleaning, anew safety relief valve, and new piston. I have a new NAA Piston, with O-Ring, and backup washer I can let you have.

    Tim Daley(MI)

    Kimberly    Posted 03-24-2019 at 19:29:53 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • @ Tim Daley
  • Tim; did you look at the updated photos? I post a photo of the dimple on the after market cylinder as compared to the original. I wanted you to give me an assessment of how I should proceed. If you think I need to replace the piston as you mentioned. I am ready to move ahead with getting the lift back together.

    Kimberly    Posted 03-22-2019 at 09:31:02 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Update on the lift repair
  • Tim, I am waiting on your assessment before continuing. It is too wet to be ploughing anyway as we got lots more rain. I noticed that the original cylinder (on the left in the photo) has a larger dimple than the after-market cylinder (on the right). Could this have been part of the issue with draft control? I guess I should mount the cylinder back on the top cover and check for clearance.

    Kimberly    Posted 03-23-2019 at 06:22:07 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • So guys, what do you think?
  • So what do you guys think about this and everything in general?

    TheOldHokie    Posted 03-25-2019 at 08:04:39 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: So guys, what do you think?
  • I think both piston and cylinder show significant wear and I would replace both. I haTE having to "fix" things a second time.

    TOH

    Ozlander    Posted 03-21-2019 at 11:52:07 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Update on the lift repair
  • I agree, doesn't look that bad.
    I haven't seen my O-ring in 25 years, but I remember it being a flat cross section, not round.
    You'll need to soak the leather ring in water to install it. Somebody will post if I'm wrong.

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 03-22-2019 at 05:32:17 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Update on the lift repair
  • Ozman-
    You may be thinking of the leather backup washer/wiper. The rubber O-Ring is round, the wiper is flat. In my D-I-Y How-To's article (see LINK) go to FIG 13 and FIG 16. New style neoprene wipers are used by some, available at CNH as p/n 87051231. I installed one when I did my 8N system at the time I wrote that article. It is still being used so cannot confirm if it is better or worse than the leather wiper. The best method I found to make the leather more pliable is to place it in a glass, metal, or ceramic container like an old coffee mug and immerse it in clean hydraulic oil. Place a lamp over it to slowly heat up -don't cook it. The lamp doesn't need to be a heat lamp; 75-150 watts is fine, just watch it, it won't take long. The key is to get the wiper installed in the groove behind the O-Ring and work it around so it is flush or below the piston OD. It can't be sticking out, crimped, or kinked and will allow installation to go smoothly.

    Tim Daley(MI)

    Kimberly    Posted 03-21-2019 at 12:45:59 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Update on the lift repair
  • The O-ring in the gasket kit is round. I am going to wait to see if I hear from Tim. I have other work I can do and I need to pick up some mineral spirits for cleaning the sump.

    TheOldHokie    Posted 03-21-2019 at 14:34:45 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Update on the lift repair
  • The original Ford specification (below) was for a standard round o-ring and flat backup washer. Both are industry standard off the shelf items - SAE -330 o-ring and backup washer.

    McMaster will sell you a bag of fifty 90 durometer buna-n -330 o-rings for $12 and a bag of fifty 90 durometer buna-n -330 backup rings for $9. That works out to $.42 per set. Wanna guess what CNH charges for the 2 they put in a bag???

    TOH

    NAA-533A O-Ring

    Diameter: 2.090/2.110
    Cross section: .205/.215
    Max flash: .003 high, .005 wide

    NAA-473A Backup Washer

    Outside diameter: 2.485/2.515
    Width: .183/.198
    Thickness: .084/.104

    Kimberly    Posted 03-21-2019 at 11:47:21 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Update on the lift repair - New Pics of cylinder
  • No, because the lift started leaking down and was also slow to rise. Over the years the lift has not operated well. Part of it could be adjustments out of whack. Of course the slow to rise could be low pressure but since the pump has already been rebuilt, I did get a new pressure relief valve since I don't know if the kit had one at the time. Memory is fuzzy after all these years. Last year I had the turn plough on the tractor to turn land that hadn't been turned before. I had the lift in draft control. Lowered the plough, made the turnover with the soil, stopped, went to raise the plough and it wouldn't come up. I put the lift in position control and it didn't want to come up either, after a few tries I got the lift to raise the plough and headed for home. Dropped the turn plough and it has been sitting in the shed since.

    Tim, look again at the piston, it does have the leather washer and it is in front of the O-ring; is that correct? Pressure would be pushing the O-ring towards the front of the piston into the washer, is that correct? I show three sides of the piston. There is a long line on one side from the front to the back of the piston. The other side shows a wider area of wear on the piston. It appears that the piston doesn't rotate in the bore in use since there are those distinct wear pattern. I am guessing some grit was in the system. I am including better photos of the cylinder.

    I am sorry about the confusion; I thought the control rod was bad. I like to have everything on hand when I go into something. My memory on this is fuzzy at best.

    The gasket kit I got has an O-ring and washer; I am guessing leather as I have not open the kit yet. If you think I should replace the piston then send me a PM. Thanks for your help.

    tractor_cylinder_2.jpg


    tractor_cylinder_3.jpg

    JMOR    Posted 03-20-2019 at 22:36:05 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Update on the lift repair
  • clearly, someone has been in there in recent years........way too clean!

    Kimberly    Posted 03-20-2019 at 22:50:44 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Update on the lift repair
  • It was at least 18 years ago; Mum was still alive when the hydraulics were done. The tractor sees occasional use, ploughing the gardens in the spring and some hauling wood. I added a harbour freight carrier to front to act as a counter weight to the rear load. What I would like is a trailer for the tractor. The Old Girl looks a bit sad; I hope to get some paint on her to spruce her up.


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