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SelectOSpeed    Posted 09-09-2019 at 21:03:32 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Question for member Gaspump
  • Mr. Gaspump sir, what month did Ford tractor production change over to the next year model ? Did it coincide with car and truck production,or was it on different schedule ? I'm speaking of the 57 thru 64 year models. Thanks ! SoS.

    Gaspump    Posted 09-10-2019 at 14:03:33 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Question for member Gaspump
  • As already mentioned it had little to do with cars or trucks. It varied year to year but was usually late in the year when farmers had time to attend. The Tractor Division was dependent on parts from the Rouge and other plants so it also had to do with availability of components for all FMC plants. Accounting and marketing had a lot to say about those events too. As I have said before Ford Tractor was the misfit little sister of the car people, they mostly believed that Ford should not be in the tractor business. The car folks eventually won out over tractors primarily by squeezing their budget.

    SelectOSpeed    Posted 09-11-2019 at 06:55:16 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Question for member Gaspump
  • Thanks for that info GP. A couple more questions for you.... Was there a primer applied to the tractor chassis and sheet metal before paint was applied ? I have noticed a blackish tone on tractors when the paint either flaked or wore down. Mostly on all castings other than the engine. Also, how long were engine blocks seasoned after being cast ? I've read 30 days up to 90 days depending on demand from production. Did the same period apply to all the other castings as well ? Thanks. SoS.

    Gaspump    Posted 09-11-2019 at 13:00:26 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Question for member Gaspump
  • Usually sheet metal went through a hot dip process. It cleaned, etched and lightly coated the metal. Casting were aged by time in process, cast at the Rouge, stockpiled, shipped as scheduled, stored at the tractor plant then machined. Castings too were run through a hot dip process, coated inside and out in the case of drive train housings.

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 09-10-2019 at 03:22:45 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Question for member Gaspump
  • I'm not Gustafson but can offer this on the earlier N Series. Tractor production was always independent of car & truck schedules. Until Henry II took over, the bean counters didn't account for every dome for the tractors. When they did that's when they discovered Ford was losing money on every tractor and Ferguson was making money which led to the Deuce firing Ferguson and ending his grandfather's 'handshake agreement' with Harry Ferguson, Inc. That resulted in a whole new can of worms involving the Ferguson lawsuit against Ford. Engineering would set goals as to when they'd release the new tractor but there was no marketing department and accountants setting release dates, at least early on. It wasn't until the "WHIZ KIDS" looked into costs and production that they really began to control dates and things. Henry Ford had wanted the new 9N tractor to be released in June of 1939 so engineering strived to make that happen and on June 29, 1939, history was made in Dearborn. That was a marvel feat in itself because it took Harold Brock and his team of engineers only 7 months to go from concept to production. That's never happened ever again anywhere. However, some things were not yet ready to be put into production. The steel hood stampings for example were wrong and Sorenson was forced to come up with Plan B in order to meet the June 29 goal for the release date, and had hoods cast out of aluminum. As 1939 went on, other issues arose and changes were often made on the fly to resolve. Car and truck engineers were comfortable with having four or five years on average from concept and design to production. Tractor engineers were always separate from the car & truck guys, at least early on. When Building 'B' was designated to be the place where the 9N would be designed and built, much secrecy was involved even amongst the Ford guys themselves. Production workers had Ford ID Badges with their badge number and the department/building they worked in. They were not allowed to venture into other areas or buildings not authorized as their own. Harry Bennett's Gestapo goon squad made sure employees were only where they were assigned to. The 2N model didn't get produced until October, 1942 as the US War Board had declared all domestic/civilian US manufacturing to be suspended so goods and products could be produced for the war effort. Ford was shut down on February 10, 1942 on all US cars, trucks, and tractors and only ordance produced for the war. The Ford 8N Tractor Model was released for production in July, 1947. the Ford NAA/Jubilee tractor Model was released for production in September 1952. Beyond that, the Whiz Kids were in control and their divisions would now be separated into departments like accounting, engineering, production, cost analysis, etc. That would lead to one of Fords' most devastating costly failures when in 1958 Ford Chief Tractor Engineer Harold Brock went head to head with the sales and marketing team. The new Select-O-Speed transmission was being built and marketed as the best thing since sliced bread. sales & marketing wanted the new tractor to be put into immediate production for 1959 models. Chief Tractor Engineer Harold Brock said, NO! It was flawed and would fail in service and required more revamping and testing before it would be ready for production. Marketing said hooey to that, they were going to release the new 1959 tractor with the new (but defective) S-O-S transmissions anyway. Mr. Brock resigned over this argument; some accounts say he was fired, but Harold would quit Ford and immediately get hired by the John Deere company where he spent the rest of his career designing and building tractors for the green and yellow models. As for Ford, Mr. Brock was right all along and the S-O-S models often failed in the field, owners and dealers were frustrated, and an eventual recall was initiated but by then the damage was done and Ford, who once held over 25% of the market share, was now at the bottom of tractor manufacturers. After that I can't say what the Thousand Series would do as far as production without going into my books and giving you the long version. So I hope this answers some of your questions.

    Tim Daley(MI)

    SelectOSpeed    Posted 09-11-2019 at 06:36:26 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Question for member Gaspump
  • Thanks Tim. FoMoCo had 3 big blunders and losses in the late Fifties to early Sixties. The first and most famous was the Edsel, then as you noted the early SOS transmission. It would seem that Ford Tractor Division would have learned a lesson from the SOS fiasco, but it repeated with another mistake on the 6000 tractor. Again, the tractor was released to market without adequate testing and evaluation. The early production machines with Diesel engines would break the crankshaft, rear wheel bearings would fail, and the hyradulic lift was erratic. The SOS transmission however had been improved and was pretty much bullet proof. All 6000 tractors had the SOS by the way. Some of the early tractors were so bad that Ford either replaced them with another improved model or bought them back. Ford initiated a campaign to modify and update the early tractors still in the field in early 1961. For each tractor involved, the dealer received a crate that was about 6ft long and 2 1/2ft square full of parts to change out. By late 1962 the crate also included paint to change the tractor to the new Blue theme. The 6000 remained the Ford Tractor Flagship until the Ford 8000 debuted for 1968. The Select-O-Speed transmission was totally redesigned for the "New World Tractors" line for 1965 and remained available well into the 1970's. For what its worth...SoS.

    Bob in KS    Posted 09-10-2019 at 09:09:31 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Question for member Gaspump
  • Tim,
    Could I make a suggestion. Your large blocks of solid type are difficult for some of us "old fogeys" to wade through.

    It would help a lot if you would put in some line breaks.

    Bob

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 09-10-2019 at 13:09:54 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Question for member Gaspump
  • I do write in standard paragraph form. I will type replies in a WORD format in case suddenly things go kaddy-whampus and get deleted then I have to start all over. Often in the translation from copying and pasting into the NTC post, it gets all compressed without line breaks. I try to proofread better next time...

    Tim

    Farmer Dan    Posted 09-10-2019 at 12:30:32 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • This better Bob?
  • I'm not Gustafson but can offer this on the earlier N Series. Tractor production was always independent of car & truck schedules. Until Henry II took over, the bean counters didn't account for every dome for the tractors. When they did that's when they discovered Ford was losing money on every tractor and Ferguson was making money which led to the Deuce firing Ferguson and ending his grandfather's 'handshake agreement' with Harry Ferguson, Inc.

    That resulted in a whole new can of worms involving the Ferguson lawsuit against Ford. Engineering would set goals as to when they'd release the new tractor but there was no marketing department and accountants setting release dates, at least early on. It wasn't until the "WHIZ KIDS" looked into costs and production that they really began to control dates and things. Henry Ford had wanted the new 9N tractor to be released in June of 1939 so engineering strived to make that happen and on June 29, 1939, history was made in Dearborn. That was a marvel feat in itself because it took Harold Brock and his team of engineers only 7 months to go from concept to production. That's never happened ever again anywhere.

    However, some things were not yet ready to be put into production. The steel hood stampings for example were wrong and Sorenson was forced to come up with Plan B in order to meet the June 29 goal for the release date, and had hoods cast out of aluminum. As 1939 went on, other issues arose and changes were often made on the fly to resolve. Car and truck engineers were comfortable with having four or five years on average from concept and design to production.

    Tractor engineers were always separate from the car & truck guys, at least early on. When Building 'B' was designated to be the place where the 9N would be designed and built, much secrecy was involved even amongst the Ford guys themselves. Production workers had Ford ID Badges with their badge number and the department/building they worked in. They were not allowed to venture into other areas or buildings not authorized as their own. Harry Bennett's Gestapo goon squad made sure employees were only where they were assigned to.

    The 2N model didn't get produced until October, 1942 as the US War Board had declared all domestic/civilian US manufacturing to be suspended so goods and products could be produced for the war effort. Ford was shut down on February 10, 1942 on all US cars, trucks, and tractors and only ordance produced for the war. The Ford 8N Tractor Model was released for production in July, 1947. the Ford NAA/Jubilee tractor Model was released for production in September 1952.

    Beyond that, the Whiz Kids were in control and their divisions would now be separated into departments like accounting, engineering, production, cost analysis, etc. That would lead to one of Fords' most devastating costly failures when in 1958 Ford Chief Tractor Engineer Harold Brock went head to head with the sales and marketing team. The new Select-O-Speed transmission was being built and marketed as the best thing since sliced bread. sales & marketing wanted the new tractor to be put into immediate production for 1959 models.

    Chief Tractor Engineer Harold Brock said, NO! It was flawed and would fail in service and required more revamping and testing before it would be ready for production. Marketing said hooey to that, they were going to release the new 1959 tractor with the new (but defective) S-O-S transmissions anyway. Mr. Brock resigned over this argument; some accounts say he was fired, but Harold would quit Ford and immediately get hired by the John Deere company where he spent the rest of his career designing and building tractors for the green and yellow models. As for Ford, Mr. Brock was right all along and the S-O-S models often failed in the field, owners and dealers were frustrated, and an eventual recall was initiated but by then the damage was done and Ford, who once held over 25% of the market share, was now at the bottom of tractor manufacturers.

    After that I can't say what the Thousand Series would do as far as production without going into my books and giving you the long version. So I hope this answers some of your questions.

    Tim Daley(MI)

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