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Subject: No Spark

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Dean    Posted 09-30-2019 at 13:19:39 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • No Spark
  • I have a 41 9N 6v front mount distributor, that was giving me intermittent problems. It would suddenly die, but restart after a few minutes, It finally stopped running and will not start. I have 6v to the top of the coil. I pulled out the distributor and check my point and gap on all 4 lobes, all was good, checked for potential shorts and continuity in all the places it should have continuity and all was OK, replaced the condenser with one that I know is good as well as the rotor, the cap is also new. Swapped the coil with one off my 8n that was running and put in new plugs. Still no spark. I also noticed that there is no reading on my amp gauge when cranking. I am at a loss, any help would be great. Thanks

    Dean    Posted 09-30-2019 at 19:16:07 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: No Spark
  • Original Dean but not poster of this thread.

    How did this happen?

    Dean

    Dean    Posted 10-01-2019 at 07:30:04 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: No Spark
  • No log in or reserved names here.
    Jerry aka Ultradog MN

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 10-01-2019 at 06:05:27 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: No Spark
  • How did what happen, Dean?


    Tim Daley(MI)

    Dean    Posted 10-01-2019 at 07:17:15 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: No Spark
  • Two members with the same forum name.

    Dean, but not the poster of this thread.

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 10-01-2019 at 11:57:45 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: No Spark
  • The NTC does not require a username and password unlike YTMAG. So it's very likely two members can and have had the same name. Farner Dan from MICH has been member here for about 20 years and using that handle for as long. About a year ago a new "Farner Dan" showed up. We told him that name was already taken and suggested he change his to another or simply add a suffix like Farmer Dan(YOUR STATE) to avoid confusion. We never heard from him again so don't know if felt offended and left or what. With YT each member has their own UN and PW so you can't post without it. We're not that sophisticated. Maybe you should contact this Dean and see if can alter is UN.

    Tim Daley(MI)

    SelectOSpeed    Posted 10-01-2019 at 14:20:41 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: No Spark and what's in a name ?
  • I don't think I will ever see a SoS-2.0 or a SoS-Montanna, or a ...... . SoS :)

    SteveVa    Posted 10-03-2019 at 00:56:42 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: No Spark and what's in a name ?
  • Maybe SOA and SOB hee hee...

    Dean    Posted 10-01-2019 at 14:29:33 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: No Spark and what's in a name ?
  • Perhaps not but you might see an S-O-S David Brown....

    The original Dean

    Dean    Posted 10-01-2019 at 12:45:04 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: No Spark
  • Will not do that.

    Long time Dean

    TPD    Posted 10-02-2019 at 05:02:50 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: No Spark
  • Do what? Contact the newest Dean? can't help ya then. Not going get NTC to change policy I don't think, nor make him change -it's up to you. Since you were first, I suggest HE be the one to change handle...

    TPD

    Dean    Posted 10-02-2019 at 07:13:32 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: No Spark
  • Don't care.

    Thought something was malfunctioning.

    Otherwise, don't care.

    Dean

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 09-30-2019 at 18:06:31 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: No Spark
  • Did you set the point gap to .015” and TIME it correctly after? After the tune-up/rebuild of the front mount, follow Bruce’s testing method. If unit passes, it will start on tractor providing all other wiring is correct. Now, you do know the front mount distributor mounts one correct way don’t you but you can get it off 180° and then you’ll bust it the first second you fire it up. I think your issue is in the wring and/or points, and not the coil, condensor, or plugs. Just because you have a 6V battery doesn’t mean it is wired all correctly for a 6V/POS GRN system. Take battery to starter shop and test for specific gravity, on their machine, under load it must sustain a full charge. Simply using a battery charger will not work. Pass? Use it. Fail? It’s bad and you begin with a new battery. Take your 6V coil off and set your VOM to OHMS. Place one probe on the pigtail wire and the other probe (polarity unimportant) on the top terminal post. Your 6V coil should read about 3.2 OHMS +/-. If so, it’s good, put it back on. Do you have the OEM Ballast Resistor in place and wired correctly? Is the generator wired correctly; 1-Wire/3-Brush unit with the roundcan cutout? Is the starter motor correct; 1-Wire and NO SOLENOID? See pictures for more help:

    FORD 9N/2N WIRING DIAGRAM:

    FORD N-SERIES TRACTOR FRONT MOUNT DISTRIBUTOR 9N-12250 BALLAST RESISTOR:

    FORD TRACTOR FRONT MOUNT TIMING PROCDURE:


    FORD TRACTOR FRONT MOUNT FIRING ORDER:


    FYI: Use Standard Ignition points or those from CNH. ECHLIN CS-35 are no longer any good quality-wise..

    NAPA CROSSOVER PART NUMBERS

    1. POINTS: ECHLIN - #CS35 (NO LONGER A QUALITY PART) or STANDARD IGNITION - #FD-6769X $
    ALT: CNH POINTS # 87744524

    2. CAP: ECHLIN - #FA350 or STANDARD IGNITION - #FD-126 $

    3. CONDENSER: ECHLIN - #FA-200 or STANDARD IGNITION - #FD-71 $

    4. ROTOR: ECHLIN - #FA-300 or STANDARD INGNITION - #FD-104 $

    5. GASKET KIT: SPAREX #S.60308 $

    6. 6V COIL: IC670 $

    7. BALLAST RESISTOR: ICR40 $

    8. SPARK PLUG WIRES –COPPER CORE $

    9. SPARK PLUGS: AUTO-LITE 437 or CHAMPION H12 $

    Tim Daley(MI)

    Farmer Dan    Posted 09-30-2019 at 17:42:22 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: No Spark
  • Here is a picture of what I'm talking about.

    Farmer Dan    Posted 09-30-2019 at 17:29:44 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: No Spark
  • Is that spring on the bottom of the coil making contact? It should be at least an inch long, sometimes they get compressed with age and you need to stretch them back out again.

    Bruce (VA)    Posted 09-30-2019 at 16:07:33 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: No Spark

  • The first thing you need to check is for battery voltage at the coil. Yes, you need a meter for that, not a light. With the key on, you should see battery voltage battery with the points open and about half that with the points closed. If you do not see either, the problem is between the battery and the coil, e.g., the resistor, ignition switch or a bad connection.

    Assuming that the bushings & advance weights are ok (*see below), & that you have correct voltage to the coil , the most common reasons for no spark or a weak spark on the front distributor are below. Check each one carefully. Even if you find a problem, check all 10:

    1. The insulator under the brass concave head screw & where the copper strip attaches. (it's fiber & will wear out; poke & prod w/ your meter leads to make sure it still works) If you need to replace the insulator, use a .250 x 3/8 nylon square nylon anchor nut available at most big box home stores.

    2. The pigtail at the bottom of the coil not making contact w/ the concave head brass screw inside the distributor. (With the coil on, the pigtail must firmly contact the brass screw. No contact = no spark) Check for continuity between the top of the coil and the pig tail; a 6 volt coil will be around 1 ohm & a 12 volt coil should be 2 to 3 ohms.

    3. The copper strip is broken or grounded to the plate. (look very carefully for cracks & breaks) .

    4. The distributor is not grounded to the block because of paint or grease acting as an insulator. Or the points plate is covered in oil.

    5. The tab on the bottom of the coil not making contact w/ the brass button on the cap. (With the cap on, the tab must firmly contact the brass button. No contact = no spark.) Check for continuity between the top of the coil and the tab; you should see about 6k ohms.

    6. A grounding issue inside the distributor: Incorrect positioning of the spring clip on the plate causing the pigtail to ground. (the open part of the clip goes between 7 & 9 o'clock on the plate. That puts the straight part of the clip opposite of the timing screw at 3 o'clock) or the condenser wire is grounding to the plate or side of the distributor.

    7. Incorrect seating of the coil on the distributor due to a loose bail or no gasket.(the coil must not move at all; if it does, replace the gasket or bail. Or stick some cardboard under the bail).

    8. Water/moisture inside the cap due to gasket failure or the absence of a gasket. (the cap AND coil have gaskets)

    9. Dirty/corroded/burned/incorrectly gapped or misaligned points. I use only Wells, Blue Streak or Echlin brand points (* *see below). If you are using quality points and cannot get the gap to open to .015, chances are you need to replace the bushings. If the shaft has any sideways movement AT ALL, the bushings must be replaced. (*** see below) If the tractor has been sitting unused for a few months, it’s highly likely that the points are glazed. Dress them with brown paper or card stock. Do NOT use a file or sandpaper. That removes the thin metallic coating on the surface and reduces point life considerably. With the points closed, you should have continuity between them; high resistance means they are glazed.

    10. Burned rotor, cracked/carbon tracked cap. Brass “dust” in the cap is a sure sign of bushing wear.

    After find the problem & re-check the point gap, do a continuity check before you put the distributor back on the tractor. Before you start, make sure your meter/light works.

    With the distributor still off the tractor, follow these steps:

    1. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw & the other on both sides of the open points. On the side closest to the cam, you should have continuity. Not on the other side! If you do, you will also have continuity everywhere because the points are grounded.

    2. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw & the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no continuity! Now, rotate the tang on the distributor....as the points open & close, you have continuity (closed) and lose it when they open.

    3. Put the coil on the distributor, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other on the cam side of the open points. You should have continuity!

    4. Coil on, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no continuity!

    At this point, I just put the distributor, coil & cap all back on the tractor as a unit. The reason I do this is because it is real easy to get the cap or coil misaligned trying to put it back together, one piece at a time. The result is something gets broken or you get a 'no spark' problem.

    It's possible to put it back on wrong & break it. Look at the slot on the end of the cam shaft. Whatever angle it happens to be, turn the distributor tang to match it. Make sure you can tell the wide side from the narrow side on both the cam & distributor! (close counts). Place the distributor on the front of the engine, gently push it in place & slowly turn the distributor body until you feel the tang slip into the slot. Rotate the distributor body until the bolt holes line up. Hand tighten the two bolts until the distributor body is flush with the timing gear cover.

    * Unscrew the plate hold down screw & remove the C clip to get the plate out. Remove the shaft & weights. The weights should freely move. The tracks should not be wallowed out.

    ** NAPA part numbers:

    . Points: FD-6769X or ECH CS35

    . Condenser: FD-71 or ECH FA200

    . Rotor: FD-104 or ECH FA 300

    . Cap: FD-126 or ECH FA 350

    ** Yesterday's Tractor kit:

    Premium Blue Streak points (A0NN12107ABS), rotor, condenser, and gauge Part
    No: APN12000ABSR

    ** Just8N's kit:

    Heavy-Duty Point Set, Condenser, Heavy-Duty Rotor, Heat Range Matched Spark Plugs. Packed 6 to Master Carton. Contains: 1-9N12107 Point Set, 1-AONN12300A Condenser, 1-9N12200 Rotor,1-9N12104 Gasket Kit,4-AL437 Spark
    Plug,1-015 Gauge, 1-025 Gauge.


    ** Distributor cam lube NAPA:

    https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/ECHML1

    *** There are three ways to replace the bushings in a front distributor:

    1. Buy new bushings (part numbers 9N12120 front & 18-12132 rear). Press out the old ones, press in the new ones and ream to fit. CAUTION: do not try this unless you have a press & know how to use it. If you break the base, a new one costs $130. If you bend the tower which holds the front bushing, a new plate will cost you $30. Resist the temptation to buy a new plate; most are pot metal and the threads will wallow out about the third time you change the points.

    2. Take the new bushings and distributor to your local machine shop.

    3. Send the distributor out for bushing replacement if you do not have a local machine shop

    Dean    Posted 09-30-2019 at 16:52:26 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: No Spark
  • Thanks: I had found the same article on another forum an had printed it out and used it as a checklist after I had removed my distributor, Everything checked out. Tha is what makes this such a head scratcher.

    Bruce (VA)    Posted 09-30-2019 at 16:56:14 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: No Spark
  • Tine to pull the distributor and start over.

    Did you put it back on w/ the coil attached?

    Dean    Posted 09-30-2019 at 18:21:32 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Its Alive!
  • Tried running a jumper from the battery to the coil and it fired right up (maybe should have done that 2 days ago)so I suspected the resistor or wiring, went to wiggle the wire that went to the distributor to the resistor and it fell off in my hand, it looked ok, but the crimp had failed. Put a new connector on and its good to go. Thanks all for the help.

    Dean

    Bruce(OR)    Posted 09-30-2019 at 14:40:59 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: No Spark
  • Burnt points?

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