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Subject: Pie wheel weights

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Brad    Posted 04-06-2020 at 14:54:17 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Pie wheel weights
  • Metal work has always interested me: Machining, welding, backyard foundry/metal casting, blacksmithing, sheet metal, etc.

    Lately I've been contemplating notion adding pie-type wheel weights to Ford 8N tractor.

    Thing is, it would take me a bit of work chasing down local pie-weight to use making mold for sand casting, locating scrap steel to melt down, etc. There are competing solutions:

    Which is better? I've seen mention through numerous forums, people loading tractor tires versus adding wheel weights.

    What to load in a tire, they're numerous DIY recipes for Windshield Wiper Fluid (mostly water, 10% alcohol to prevent freezing, and a dash of dish detergent) that seems like it would work out better than using plain water.

    Seems WWF would suit traction needs without liability of calcium chloride's eating up rims, while being a much simpler/economically sound way to go, rather than trouble/time/effort/expense sand-casting wheel weights?

    Kirk-NJ    Posted 04-08-2020 at 05:56:03 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Pie wheel weights
  • Here's a set off homemade steel plates on my Ih 240. They are 225 each. I have also seen some made out of manhole covers. Scrap yard might have something laying around you can use.

    For concrete weight you can lay your tire down and weld a pipe on the disc bigger then the center drill a couple few bolts in then cut a big piece of sona tube and pour. Worked good on my 641

    Brad    Posted 04-08-2020 at 06:49:34 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Pie wheel weights
  • Now that's what I'm talking about! Affordable, Innovative and gets the job done, that's my kind of solution :-) Thanks for sharing, gives me some food for thought. I can see a number of possibilities ...

    JK-NY    Posted 04-07-2020 at 08:42:29 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Pie wheel weights
  • I have 2 newer tractors with used antifreeze in the rear wheels for weight. It has worked out well for me. If you want to make home made wheel weights I have seen people make them from concrete. That might also be an option for axle weights as pictured by Kirk-NJ. Last idea- depending on your need to use your three point hitch and have the weights at the same time you could make a weight that attaches to the three point hitch- easy to add/ delete weight as needed. You could use old barbell weights, concrete, make a box to fill with stone, etc. This is often done on smaller loader tractors. I made such a weight 40 years ago for my father out of an old truck fuel tank filled most of the way with stones, then poured in real loose concrete to fill the voids. I left it about 3-4” from full so there was room for a chain or something else and had a draw bar extension on the tractor so the weight actually sat on the drawbar and we could still hook up a wagon or trailer.

    Brad    Posted 04-07-2020 at 10:53:52 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Pie wheel weights
  • Great ideas, thanks for sharing :-)

    I can see advantage in quickly hitching/unhitching weight when it's needed as you've described.

    Working with concrete is a lot quicker/easier than pouring cast steel weights.

    Idea I've been ruminating on: DIY wheel weight liquid, 30% isopropyl alcohol (or used anti-freeze also good for oil-preservative function) added to used cooking oil obtained from fast-fry restaurants? I doubt this would rust out any rims?

    Oil/alcohol wouldn't be as toxic/flammable as some mixtures used for the purpose. I've a fire extinguisher handy on my tractor for general common sense and safety reasons already, it'd be especially important if anything in the tires is flammable. DIY adapters to fill up tractor tires with liquids are quite economically priced via Ag suppliers.

    One person used hollow, cast-concrete "weights" and filled them with lead. That's a clever solution, but I doubt it'd be fun changing weights out when you wanted lighter weight.

    Forums have good information about further options, with resultant pros and cons. https://www.wfmachines.com/forums/vendor.php

    JK-NY    Posted 04-07-2020 at 12:39:08 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Pie wheel weights
  • If you use used antifreeze as liquid tire ballast you wouldn’t need to add any oil and it would be nonflammable.

    Brad    Posted 04-07-2020 at 14:08:01 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Pie wheel weights
  • All very valid points you bring up.

    Keeping cost affordable, if possible (otherwise, if cost is no object, I'd just follow Tim's sage advice & go for sugar-extracted-beet-juice Rim Guard), in league with calcium chloride or water cost, largely equates to repurposing recyclable items, like used oil/antifreeze, & whatever has desired properties in combination and can be made to do job intended.

    Here would require MacGyver-ish experimentation, as anti-freeze, which is supposed to be non corrosive, does electrolize as it gets older.

    I doubt anyone's going to get everything that they want in a bottom-dollar work-around, but you can come up with a doable over-all compromise solution.

    Used anti-freeze is available, as is used oil, which ought to retain enough helpful properties (anti-corrosion, low freezing point, dense weight per unit volume, etc), while keeping costs as low as possible. This is a starting point for trial-and-error experimentation. "Necessity is the Mother of invention."

    Unfortunately, antifreeze/oil mixture is flammable and toxic; illustrating difficulties having everything in one economically-affordable-package, without having some downsides.

    I'm sure there's folks out there who've used all kinds of things, and they may want to offer opinion on what they believe works best for them.

    JK-NY    Posted 04-07-2020 at 14:51:41 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Pie wheel weights
  • I’m not sure why you feel the need for adding oil to used antifreeze for ballast purposes. If anything it might be detrimental as it might affect the rubber inner tubes. Electrolysis affects metals, not rubber which inner tubes and radiator hoses are made of so that wouldn’t be a factor for ballast purposes. Not sure where you are located, windshield washer fluid may be adequate in some areas for freeze protection, as well as just using water in a warm enough climate. I would recommend using inner tubes in tires with any liquid ballast, it’s pretty much an industry standard .

    Brad    Posted 04-07-2020 at 16:27:50 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Pie wheel weights
  • Q: "...why you feel the need for adding oil to used antifreeze for ballast..."

    A: My reasoning: calcium chloride, purely contained inside an inner tube, could cause no harm to metal. Unfortunately, as all too many people have experienced to their expense, tubes do leak, and corrosives end up damaging rims. My interest in having higher percentage of oil, is to mitigate against corrosive factors, otherwise unavoidable.

    Reasoning for anti-freeze: Northeast Kansas never fails to freeze during winter. My tractor is required to push snow, at that time when having more traction is beneficial. Sufficient antifreeze lowering freezing point of oil/load-mixture necessitated by climate, is requisite for adequate response.

    DIY anti-freezing WWF could work (-20 F), however, yielding no cost advantage over DIY used oil & antifreeze ballast mix imho.

    Pretty much everything is influenced by cost. "The nicer the nice, the higher the price". If one is on budgetary constraints, when something has to work, you're stuck figuring out some way to "git 'er done", whatever obstacles may be.

    With present COVID-19's economics, I'm in no position to throw money to "Beet" (IE: Rim Guard) the issue ;-) lol

    JK-NY    Posted 04-07-2020 at 20:25:04 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Pie wheel weights
  • Maybe we are thinking about different things when we say “antifreeze .” I am not referring to calcium chloride/water , the traditional liquid ballast . I am referring to used automotive or truck coolant , which is not corrosive or flammable . If you can find a source to get enough for free to load your tires it’s a good alternative to more expensive choices. I apologize if I didn’t explain it well in the other posts . As far as calcium chloride solution , I have 2 tractors with calcium chloride ballast (and one more with pie weights that I removed the calcium fluid from). The secret to avoiding corrosion from this type of ballast is to fix any leaks immediately .

    Brad    Posted 04-07-2020 at 07:36:17 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Pie wheel weights
  • Wow Kirk and Tim! :-)

    You both are so knowledgeable, and I'm quite fortunate you're willing to share what you've learned. Thanks so very much for that! :-)

    There is no substitute for experience. Great ideas about all those option's pros and cons.

    Q: What is the smartest thing in the world? A: A 5-year Apprentice. Q: what is the dumbest thing in the world? A: A first-year journeyman. ;-)

    Q: Best thing about being human? A: Nobody has to know everything, just have to know someone who knows, shares and cares to pass on their knowledge and experience :-) Will Rogers quote: "Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects."

    Tim, Your solution (pun intended;-) is hard to "Beet" lol >8'-D Talk about a "home-grown" solution lol

    I wouldn't try to have a Foundry make anything for me, the journey in getting there is half the DIY fun :-) https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLD2A7F5FD2D3C3088

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 04-07-2020 at 05:21:07 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Pie wheel weights
  • Finding a local foundry that can cast sand molds and cheaply is going to be tough. Many US small foundries are no longer in business due to the EPA requirements on waste disposal and other glitches. Reinventing the wheel is your time, money, and efforts. Liquid ballast is a better solution (pun intended). There are a few alternatives to Ca Chl, a substance that works well for added ballast but highly corrosive. It's known to have ruined many OEM Hat Rims. Windshield wiper fluid and used anti-freeze are and can contain water - no better than Ca Chl. The 9 x 28 N Wheels and 10 x 28 tires use tubes. The solutions will work no matter what it is there but when they start to leak, usually at the valve stem, that's when the cancer starts. BEET JUICE is my recommend solution. The Trade name is Rim Guard -see LINK. Good stuff, non-corrosive, good weight per gallon ratio. Nick name comes from sugar beets it is made from. I've been suing Rim Guard since the mid 1990's when it first came out and never have had an issue. N's were not around when the pie weights were introduced. They came with the Hundred Series Models. Two styles were used - the lighter 30# set and the HD 45# set. The pie weight sets also requires the special stud extenders, 16, in order to use as well. Note caution on chart not to use the HD set on the 600 Model. Why? Axle weight limits. So an 8N would not be wise. Now, that being said, I have seen pie weights on 9N, 2N, and 8N models but only 4 or 6 segments were used. I have a complete set of HD pies weights. I mounted them once on my 8N and it was literally an all day project. I learned to cuss like a drunken sailor that day. Never again. That’s when I got smart and found Rim Guard. Duallys were also an option for added ballast too.


    Tim Daley(MI)

    Kirk-NJ    Posted 04-07-2020 at 05:09:42 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Pie wheel weights
  • Still another option industrial style stack-able plate weights. These weighed 100 lbs a piece and you could stack them. The down side is you still need adapter nuts to mount them. All in all I think the half moons would be the easiest to make and if there are some imperfections in the casing they are mounted on the inside and most folks won't even notice.

    Kirk-NJ    Posted 04-07-2020 at 04:52:20 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Pie wheel weights
  • Another option might be axle weights. They weight between 145/180 each.

    Kirk-NJ    Posted 04-07-2020 at 04:46:48 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Pie wheel weights
  • So I'm guessing you are looking to add some weight to the 8n. I don't think Making the pies is a good option cause you would still need to make a plate and you would still need a mounting plate, 24 bolts and washers and 16 (ain't cheap) adapter lug nut's. Here might be a couple of options for you. The half moon weights. I have seen these homemade also. I have seen these weights in an inch to inch and a half thick weighing about 60/70 lbs each. you can also stack them to get the weight you need. I've had them in 2" thick and they weighed 100 lbs each segment. These would be mounted on the inside.

    Kirk-nj    Posted 04-06-2020 at 16:23:37 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Pie wheel weights
  • Where are you located?

    Brad    Posted 04-06-2020 at 17:48:13 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Pie wheel weights
  • I live in Jefferson County Kansas (northeast Kansas) in a farmhouse, about four and a half miles north of Oskaloosa Kansas.

    Oskaloosa (the county seat) is about 30 miles from Atchison, Lawrence, Topeka, Leavenworth; about 30 miles from anywhere lol ;-)

    Mclouth Kansas has had their threshing bee and steam engine show since the 1960s http://www.mclouththreshingbee.com/ and I figure to contact these folks and see if they can give me a lead on someone local that would have Ford 8N pie weights I could look at. Core or pattern for sand casting can be molded directly off pie weights.

    There is one other association in Jefferson County that also has threshing bee & steam engine shows I can contact: Meriden Antique Engine and Threshers Association http://www.meridenthreshers.org/. A lot of the same individuals belong to each organization.

    Both organizations have blacksmith shops; Meriden has belt-driven machine shop.
    Plenty DIY foundry build tutorials available online, which is the route I went.

    I see how it would be preferable to go with affordable, easy DIY windshield wiper fluid loading tires over fabricating pie wheel weights. Conundrum is, what added ingredients might be necessary to prevent rim rusting? Maybe some used Cooking oil from a deep fat fryer would work? idk...

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