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Subject: Starting issues...any ideas?

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Travis Webb    Posted 11-21-2020 at 20:49:23 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Starting issues...any ideas?
  • Tractor starts and runs, but it takes a while to get it started. The engine will just roll over and over, and eventually will start. I have to mess with the throttle, the choke, and push the starter button several times before I get anywhere.

    I replaced the plugs with Autolite 216's about 6 months ago, and it worked a bit better, but now it's back to being very hard to start. I'm getting spark to the plugs, and I've checked the ignition key, the starter button, the starter relay, the coil, the points, the rotor, and fuel It has a new carburetor on it as well.

    I'm thinking I need to replace the starter. Am I on the right track with that logic?

    Anything else I could be missing?

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 11-24-2020 at 06:49:33 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Starting issues...any ideas?
  • "... I'm thinking I need to replace the starter. Am I on the right track with that logic?" NO! Most likely starter motor is fine. You are guessing and succumbing to breaking one of the major rules of mechanics. True Root Case Problem Solving - don't guess, leave that to lottery numbers. A 12V coil on a 6V system will not harm nor cause your hard staring issues. Incorrect wiring is 97.8% of all non-starting issues. Fuel #2 and compression #3. A weak/worn engine with low compression will make starting tougher. Do a compression test? A 6V battery does not mean the system is wired correctly for the 6V/POS GRN system. "...I've checked the ignition key, the starter button, the starter relay, the coil, the points, the rotor, and fuel It has a new carburetor on it as well..." How did you check all of these items? What was wrong with the old parts, carb included? Did you perform the fuel flow test? OEM components were designed to be rebuilt over and over. New aftermarket parts are made in Cheena and often junkers. If carb passed fuel flow test, leave it alone. Chances are your new Beijing carb was not preset so if you didn't tweak it, won't be right anyway. Rule #2 mistake is replacing every part til you get it running, or not. You basically did a tune-up with new points, plugs, rotor, condensor, but did you set the TIMING on the distributor correctly? You need a timing light to accurately set the timing. TIMING is 4 BTDC on the 8N Angle Mount, Firing Order is 1,2,4,3 CCW. Breaker Points are gapped at .025", plugs are gapped at .027". Both the OEM 8N OWNER/OPERATOR'S MANUAL and the CLYMER/I&T FO-4 MANUAL have chapters on the tune-ups and how to R&R the system. Go to our HOW-TO's forum, under ELECTRICAL, and download a copy of WIRING PICTOGRAMS by JMOR. Verify wiring is all correct -take no shortcuts.


    Tim Daley(MI)

    Travis Webb    Posted 11-22-2020 at 13:35:23 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Starting issues...any ideas?
  • Tested spark with a tester the other day, and it lit up; however I pulled the wire today and held it close to the block...very weak/yellow spark on all 4 plugs. Pulled one plug out and it was burned/black...should I replace those? Should I replace the plug wires? Distributor contents are clean and dry, and new as of this spring. Here is a link for a sound recording of the engine rolling.

    John in Mich    Posted 11-22-2020 at 15:13:09 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Starting issues...any ideas?
  • Sounds strong enough to me. Remember, these tractors could be started with a hand crank. I know I could not turn it that fast by hand.
    Clean or replace the plugs, open the throttle and leave the choke alone until it starts.

    Travis Webb    Posted 11-23-2020 at 21:02:16 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Starting issues...any ideas?
  • Replaced my coil (found out it was a 12V coil) with a new 6V coil, and put new Autolite 216 plugs in. Still had to choke it a bit, and crank a few times, but it started a lot easier and faster than before. Definitely helped. Still hard to start when cold, but when it's warm, it'll start with one push of the button. I've got some new battery cables coming tomorrow, so maybe those will help too.

    Lynn Patrick    Posted 11-22-2020 at 09:01:59 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Starting issues...any ideas?
  • If "The engine will just roll over and over" why are you suspecting the starter system? Sounds to me like that is working right! I would start w/hotter plugs. I have very good luck w/NGK 3112. Next make sure you have a GOOD set of points set correctly & the timing is spot on.

    Bruce(VA)    Posted 11-22-2020 at 07:56:23 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Starting issues...any ideas?
  • 6v or 12v?

    Front or side distributor?

    Travis Webb    Posted 11-22-2020 at 10:09:10 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Starting issues...any ideas?
  • 6V, side distributor

    John in Mich    Posted 11-21-2020 at 21:23:30 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Starting issues...any ideas?
  • These old tractors have different personalities. Unless you have done a factory specifications rebuild, you have an tractor age variablity.
    Compression, fuel delivery, spark, timing, wiring etc all have a roll.
    Why start changing parts unless it is obvious that they are bad?
    Cold, my '51 and'52 8Ns and my NAA Jubilee all start by opening the throttle about 25%, no choke, and hit the start button. Each will start on the 2nd compression stroke and then I immediately pull the choke out, then feather it back in while listening to the engine. Each of these tractors are original 6 volt systems.
    I have a 40 9N that I need to adjust the throttle. It has no affect on the carburetor until I move the lever to the halfway point.
    How are all your systems?

    Travis Webb    Posted 11-21-2020 at 21:33:01 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Starting issues...any ideas?
  • Mine wishes it would start that good! :) From what I can tell, all my systems are good and working. To start mine, it's a '51 8N with 6V system, I leave the throttle down at idle, and have to open the choke all the way. Once it finally starts, and warms up a bit, I can close the throttle.

    Jack-Iowa    Posted 11-22-2020 at 08:57:15 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Starting issues...any ideas?
  • My first thought is you have a vacuum leak. Both my 2N and 860 start with about 1/3 throttle and very little choke. Once running I have to play with the choke until they warm up a little.

    Travis Webb    Posted 11-22-2020 at 10:08:01 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Starting issues...any ideas?
  • How do I check for a vacuum leak?

    Jack-Iowa    Posted 11-23-2020 at 07:14:46 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Starting issues...any ideas?
  • Spray Starting Fluid, WD-40, or such around the manifold to block connection and the carb to manifold connection. If you get an increase in engine speed at some spot, you have found your leak.

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