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Subject: Turns over wonít start

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Nicholas Coakley    Posted 01-19-2021 at 08:39:50 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Turns over wonít start
  • Hi I have a 1942 Ford 2N. It got worked seriously worked on in 2014. And ran fine until about a year ago. It was given to me recently. It needed a new 12v battery. It has been converted to 12v. I also replaced the spark plugs. And I cleaned the carb and even tried a after market carb. But all it does is turn over and wonít start. Fuels getting to the carb. Iím new to most of this so please understand

    Kevin    Posted 01-21-2021 at 00:15:46 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Turns over wonít start
  • Very simple machine. maybe 6 wires total. I just bought a 9n with a rats nest of wires in it to make a 12v conversion work. Had the same problem after replacing everything that was bad, damaged, or severely worn. Turns out it was a the cable from the battery to the start switch. Had a bad spot in it but inside the shielding. Replaced that and it starts fine now. Check for worn/ bad wires

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 01-20-2021 at 06:20:25 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Turns over wonít start
  • Nick-
    Start with a copy of 75 Tips by Bruce(VA), the ESSENTIAL MANUALS, and copy of JMOR's WIRING PICTOGRAMS, the latter in our HOW-TO's forum. The best tool you can invest in are at least the CLYMER I&T FO-4 manual, and the 39-53 Master Parts Catalog from Just8Ns. Don't assume just because you have a 12V battery it is wired correctly. A GRP 25 or 35 12V battery with good 12V cables is required. A 12V 9N/2N conversion also consist of removing the GEN and CUTOUT and replacing with an ALTERNATOR, belt tensioner, new/rerouted wiring, 12V lamps, and uses the OEM Ballast Resistor. If a 6V coil is used you will need to add an external 1-OHM white ceramic resistor also at Just8Ns. If a 12V coil is used, delete the extra resistor. Front Mount Distributor is tuned up off the tractor on your bench. Use the manuals to see how to set points and TIME it -you don't use a timing light. DIS is mounted only one correct way. If off it will bust the aluminum base and become junk. There are but 2 or 3 GOOD brands of points nowadays. Seek Standard Ignition/Blue Streak #FD-6769-X and can be found at NAPA as well a s all the other parts for the front mount DIS. Don't let them sell you the ECHLIN brand. They used to be the best but now are junk. TISCO and CASE/NEW HOLLAND also have some but the latter may no longer be supplied. OEM Spark Plugs are spec'd as Champion H10, but since the Champion H12 (512)and AUTO-LITE 437 (216) were made as a hotter plug and either one will work fine. Never leave your IGN key switch ON -it'll burn up the points. Points gapped at .015", Plugs gapped at .025". Firing order 1,2,4,3 CCW. Use OEM Manuals for parts and 6V/POS GRN setup. Only JMOR's PICTOGRAMS have the 12V conversion.

    FORD N-SERIES TRACTOR FRONT MOUNT DISTRIBUTOR 9N-12250 BALLAST RESISTOR:

    EXTERNAL IN-LINE 1-OHM CERAMIC RESISTOR Ė REQUIRED WITH THE FRONT MOUNT DISTRIBUTOR WHEN USING A 6-VOLT COIL:


    FRONT MOUNT TIMING PROCEDURE:

    FORD TRACTOR FRONT MOUNT DISTRIBUTOR TIMING APPLICATION GAGE:

    FORD TRACTOR FRONT MOUNT DISTRIBUTOR FIRING ORDER; 1,2,4,3 CCW:

    FORD FRONT MOUNT DISTRIBUTOR Ė WHAT HAPPENS WHEN MOUNTED 180į OFF:



    FORD 9N/2N WIRING 6V & 12V:


    FORD 9N/2N ESSENTIAL OWNER/OPERATOR/PARTS/SERVICE MANUALS:


    Tim Daley(MI)

    Bruce(OR)    Posted 01-19-2021 at 12:33:53 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Turns over wonít start
  • Bruce(VA) posted your answer. YOU just need to start reading and troubleshooting.
    However, your still looking for a shortcut, it's human nature.
    So jump in the middle and work out both directions.
    It might take twice as long or you might get lucky.
    Start with "No Spark" issues and see what you get.

    Bruce(VA)    Posted 01-19-2021 at 08:50:33 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Turns over wonít start
  • These tractors are pretty simple machines; itís usually pretty easy to get them running with some basic troubleshooting steps. You can:

    1. Replace every part you can until it starts or you run out of money.

    2. List every possible cause of the problem and then randomly pick your favorite to check. It could be your coil. Or your ignition switch. Or about 10 other things.


    3. Like diagnosing any other equipment failure, take a step-by-step approach, working from the most likely to the least likely, one system at a time.

    Iíve tried all three approaches. The third one always worked for me.

    I might not be able to tell you why your tractor isnít running, but I can tell you how to figure it out for yourself.


    You could have a spark issue.


    You could have a fuel issue.


    Donít guess. Troubleshoot. See tip # 13 at the link below.


    You need to answer 2 questions before you do anything else:


    With the bolt in the carb bowl removed and the gas on, will the fuel flow fill a pint jar in less than 2 minutes?


    Next, get out your adjustable gap spark checker * , open the gap to 1/4", hook it up, turn the key on and crank the engine. Does the spark jump 1/4"? Post back with the answers.


    And do not buy a new part for the tractor until you can answer this question: how do I know the part on the tractor is defective?

    Once you narrow the problem to spark or fuel, post back and tell us what you found (and how you found it) and you will get plenty of help to get your tractor running.

    * Don't own an adjustable gap spark checker? Buy one! Not a test light! Until then, take an old plug, open the gap 1/4" ground it to the head & look for spark. Itís not the color of the spark that counts; itís the distance it jumps.

    https://www.autozone.com/test-scan-and-specialty-tools/ignition-tester/oemtools-adjustable-ignition-spark-tester/10257_0_0?cmpid=PLA:US:EN:AD:NL:1000000:TLS:71700000043798748&gclid=Cj0KCQiAovfvBRCRARIsADEmbRKBdAvAmtFfOvYiYXR7T6NYiW57uyv5-dEKjVT_h2KogQNUUMsRixYaAlU3EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds


    Nicholas Coakley    Posted 01-19-2021 at 13:19:52 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Turns over wonít start
  • Well it turns out the distributor coil looks like it had a bad leak. That may be why I havenít been getting spark.

    Jack-Iowa    Posted 01-20-2021 at 08:26:32 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Turns over wonít start
  • Your tractor should have the front mounted distributor. It also sounds like you will be removing it to replace the points.

    Bruce (VA) posted the following a few weeks ago (which I cannot find now). While you have it off would be a good time to check it throughly per Bruce's instructions:

    Bruce VA Ė Troubleshooting Front Mount Distributor
    The first thing you need to check is for battery voltage at the coil. Yes, you need a meter for that, not a light. With the key on, you should see battery voltage with the points open and about half that with the points closed. If you do not see either, the problem is between the battery and the coil, e.g., the resistor, ignition switch or a bad connection.
    Remove the distributor from the engine.
    Assuming that the bushings & advance weights are ok (*see below), & that you have correct voltage to the coil , the most common reasons for no spark or a weak spark on the front distributor are below. Check each one carefully. Even if you find a problem, check all 10:
    1. The insulator under the brass concave head screw & where the copper strip attaches. (it's fiber & will wear out; poke & prod w/ your meter leads to make sure it still works) If you need to replace the insulator, use a .250 x 3/8 nylon square nylon anchor nut available at most big box home stores.
    2. The pigtail at the bottom of the coil not making contact w/ the concave head brass screw inside the distributor. (With the coil on, the pigtail must firmly contact the brass screw. No contact = no spark) Check for continuity between the top of the coil and the pig tail; a 6 volt coil will be around 1 ohm & a 12 volt coil should be 2 to 3 ohms.
    3. The copper strip is broken or grounded to the plate. (look very carefully for cracks & breaks) .
    4. The distributor is not grounded to the block because of paint or grease acting as an insulator. Or the points plate is covered in oil.
    5. The tab on the bottom of the coil not making contact w/ the brass button on the cap. (With the cap on, the tab must firmly contact the brass button. No contact = no spark.) Check for continuity between the top of the coil and the tab; you should see about 6k ohms.
    6. A grounding issue inside the distributor: Incorrect positioning of the spring clip on the plate causing the pigtail to ground. (the open part of the clip goes between 7 & 9 o'clock on the plate. That puts the straight part of the clip opposite of the timing screw at 3 o'clock) or the condenser wire is grounding to the plate or side of the distributor.
    7. Incorrect seating of the coil on the distributor due to a loose bail or no gasket.(the coil must not move at all; if it does, replace the gasket or bail. Or stick some cardboard under the bail).
    8. Water/moisture inside the cap due to gasket failure or the absence of a gasket. (the cap AND coil have gaskets)
    9. Dirty/corroded/burned/incorrectly gapped or misaligned points. I use only Wells, Blue Streak or Echlin brand points (* *see below). If you are using quality points and cannot get the gap to open to .015, chances are you need to replace the bushings. If the shaft has any sideways movement AT ALL, the bushings must be replaced. (*** see below) If the tractor has been sitting unused for a few months, itís highly likely that the points are glazed. Dress them with brown paper or card stock. Do NOT use a file or sandpaper. That removes the thin metallic coating on the surface and reduces point life considerably. With the points closed, you should have continuity between them; high resistance means they are glazed.
    10. Burned rotor, cracked/carbon tracked cap. Brass ďdustĒ in the cap is a sure sign of bushing wear.
    After find the problem & re-check the point gap, do a continuity check before you put the distributor back on the tractor. Before you start, make sure your meter/light works.
    With the distributor still off the tractor, follow these steps:
    1. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw & the other on both sides of the open points. On the side closest to the cam, you should have continuity. Not on the other side! If you do, you will also have continuity everywhere because the points are grounded.
    2. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw & the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no continuity! Now, rotate the tang on the distributor....as the points open & close, you have continuity (closed) and lose it when they open.
    3. Put the coil on the distributor, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other on the cam side of the open points. You should have continuity!
    4. Coil on, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no continuity!
    At this point, I just put the distributor, coil & cap all back on the tractor as a unit. The reason I do this is because it is real easy to get the cap or coil misaligned trying to put it back together, one piece at a time. The result is something gets broken or you get a 'no spark' problem.
    It's possible to put it back on wrong & break it. Look at the slot on the end of the cam shaft. Whatever angle it happens to be, turn the distributor tang to match it. Make sure you can tell the wide side from the narrow side on both the cam & distributor! (close counts). Place the distributor on the front of the engine, gently push it in place & slowly turn the distributor body until you feel the tang slip into the slot. Rotate the distributor body until the bolt holes line up. Hand tighten the two bolts until the distributor body is flush with the timing gear cover.
    * Unscrew the plate hold down screw & remove the C clip to get the plate out. Remove the shaft & weights. The weights should freely move. The tracks should not be wallowed out.
    ** NAPA part numbers: Points: FD-6769X or ECH CS35
    Rotor: FD-104 or ECH FA 300 Condenser: FD-71 or ECH FA200
    Cap: FD-126 or ECH FA 350 Cam lube NAPA: Echlin ECHML1


    Bruce(VA)    Posted 01-19-2021 at 13:24:42 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Turns over wonít start
  • That might have something to do with it.

    And it is leaking because the key got left on.

    Your points are probably toast as well.

    Pull the distributor, check bushing wear and insure that the advance works. Replace the points, set the gap and then set the timing .

    See tips 66, 67 & 68.

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