Politics Forum - Expanded Thread Page

Subject: Take A Knee

[Back] [Return to Top of Forum]

Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 08-27-2018 at 12:43:33 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Take A Knee
  • Take a knee...

    I don't think I've ever read anything more powerful than this piece

    It was written by Ted Nugent

    Take a little trip to Valley Forge in January. Hold a musket ball in your
    fingers and imagine it piercing your flesh and breaking a bone or two.
    There won't be a doctor or trainer to assist you until after the battle, so
    Just wait your turn. Take your cleats and socks off to get a real

    Then, take a knee on the beach in Normandy where man after American man
    stormed the beach, even as the one in front of him was shot to pieces, the
    very sea stained with American blood. The only blockers most had were the
    dead bodies in front of them, riddled with bullets from enemy fire.

    Take a knee in the sweat soaked jungles of Vietnam. From Khe Sanh to
    Saigon, anywhere will do. Americans died in all those jungles. There was no
    playbook that told them what was next, but they knew what flag they
    represented. When they came home, they were protested as well, and spit on
    for reasons only cowards know.

    Take another knee in the blood drenched sands of Fallujah in 110 degree
    heat. Wear your Kevlar helmet and battle dress. Your number won't be
    printed on it unless your number is up! You'll need to stay hydrated but
    there won't be anyone to squirt Gatorade into your mouth. You're on your

    There are a lot of places to take a knee where Americans have given their
    lives all over the world. When you use the banner under which they fought
    as a source for your displeasure, you dishonor the memories of those who
    bled for the very freedoms you have. That's what the red stripes mean. It
    represents the blood of those who spilled a sea of it defending your

    While you're on your knee, pray for those that came before you, not on a
    manicured lawn striped and printed with numbers to announce every inch of
    ground taken, but on nameless hills and bloodied beaches and sweltering
    forests and bitter cold mountains, every inch marked by an American life
    lost serving that flag you protest.

    No cheerleaders, no announcers, no coaches, no fans, just American men and
    women, delivering the real fight against those who chose to harm us,
    blazing a path so you would have the right to "take a knee." You haven't
    any inkling of what it took to get you where you are, but your "protest" is
    duly noted. Not only is it disgraceful to a nation of real heroes, it
    serves the purpose of pointing to your ingratitude for those who chose to
    defend you under that banner that will still wave long after your jersey is

    If you really feel the need to take a knee, come with me to church on
    Sunday and we'll both kneel before Almighty God. We'll thank Him for
    preserving this country for as long as He has We'll beg forgiveness for our
    ingratitude for all He has provided us. We'll appeal to Him for
    understanding and wisdom. We'll pray for liberty and justice for all,
    because He is the one who provides those things. But there will be no
    protest. There will only be gratitude for His provision and a plea for His
    continued grace and mercy on the land of the free and the home of the
    brave. It goes like this, GOD BLESS AMERICA

    Bruce(OR)    Posted 08-27-2018 at 22:10:22 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Take A Knee // Uh. . . .Ted Nugent?
  • Publication date: Aug. 31, 2013

    The claim

    Ted Nugent was a draft dodger. Really.

    The background

    Regarding last week's Fact Checker sidebar, Mark Nelson of Sparks wrote, "(Fact Checker) said that since Ted registered for the draft and did not go to Canada, he is not a draft dodger. A quick Google check shows the definition of a draft dodger is someone who 'evades compulsory military service.' It says nothing about Canada or failure to register. By his own admission, Nugent faked symptoms and used drugs to keep from being drafted. Nugent is a draft dodger."

    The original column was more interested in whether it's hypocrisy for someone to hold different views at age 64 than at age 18. The question of draft-dodging during the Vietnam War, when some young men were forced to serve by the government, probably wasn't given its due.

    Nelson is right. Nugent said in a 1977 High Times magazine article that he faked symptoms (being unhygienic to appear mentally unfit) and used meth before his military physical to get out of serving.

    But, in a 2006 interview with the UK Independent newspaper, he said he made up that story to the High Times reporter.

    To take a step back, Fact Checker contacted Dick Flahavan at the Selective Service System, which handles registration for military service, to verify what qualifies as draft-dodging.

    He wrote in an email, "Every Selective Service registrant was entitled to file for any type claim postponement, deferment or exemption to which he believed he was entitled at the time he was called for induction, even though the claim might have been frivolous or even a stretch. If granted by the Local Board, then he received the appropriate classification, e.g., 4-F, II-S, 1-A, etc. This was the procedure that Selective Service followed, it was provided by law, and filing for a claim was not considered draft-dodging.

    "On the other hand, if a man faked or deceptively manufactured a claim which did not represent his real situation e.g., substituted another man's physical exam results, or represented himself as gay to avoid his duty to serve then it was fraudulent and constituted draft-dodging. The term draft-dodging also was applied to those men who received their notice to report for induction and immediately left the U.S. for Canada or Sweden or remained in the U.S. but dropped out and went underground.

    "In sum, avoiding the draft through any licit method is legal; avoiding service if qualified and called is not.

    "So in your example of a man registering for the draft and showing up for his medical exam would not be avoiding the draft or avoiding serving. But if that man faked his medical results, then he would be attempting to avoid being drafted to serve in the military."

    (In an effort to keep politics out of the discussion, Fact Checker did not use Nugent's name, just the case's details, in correspondence.)

    According to military records, Nugent got a student deferment. As mentioned above, this was a legal means of avoiding service in the military and is not considered draft dodging.

    (Dick Cheney, Rush Limbaugh, Mitt Romney, Donald Trump and Bill O'Reilly as well as Bill Clinton all got student deferments during the Vietnam War and are not draft dodgers. Clinton also got help from friends in high places and didn't follow through on some promises to avoid service but is legally considered not to have violated the Military Selective Service Act.)

    Nugent's student deferment went away for reasons that are not clear. Jennifer Burke, also with the Selective Service System, told Fact Checker that common reasons could be "he a) finished school or finished the semester, b) was not a full-time student, maintaining good grades, or c) did not return to school for whatever reason."

    Given Nugent was a touring musician, b or c are likely candidates.

    Regardless, it's clear the initial student deferment was legal. Nugent has said it was given so he could attend Oakland Community College.

    Nugent then got a second deferment. Because he failed his military medical exam, he was reclassified as 4-F, or unfit for service.

    So everything hinges on that medical exam. If he faked a bad result, he's a draft dodger. If he didn't, he's not.

    "By way of clarification," Burke said about 4-F qualifications, "the 'physical' category included psychiatric disorders; 'mental' related to solely intelligence test scores; 'moral' was determined by the registrant's court record."

    There are no government records on Nugent that could shed light.

    Burke said, "The only remaining records for registrations prior to 1980 are the registration card and classification record. Any other documents, medical records, results of physical examinations, etc., would have been placed in the registrant's file folder. These file folders were routinely destroyed when the registrant reached age 26 years, or age 35 if the individual received a deferment. Any remaining file folders in existence in 1978 were destroyed as approved by the archivist of the United States."

    That means the only evidence is from an unreliable witness: Nugent himself.

    Of course, Fact Checker reached out to the Nugent camp. Publicist Linda Peterson was asked: "Did Ted Nugent try to make himself seem unfit for duty during his military physical for the Vietnam draft?"

    She responded, "Nope, urban legend."

    Fact Checker asked what was the reason for Nugent's 4-F deferment and didn't get a reply.

    The verdict

    Fact Checker gave too narrow of a definition of "draft dodger" last week, as Mark Nelson of Sparks correctly pointed out.

    But even with a more expansive definition, there's still no proof Nugent dodged the draft. If he's a liar who can't be trusted now, that doesn't make his word more trustworthy in 1977.

    Plausible arguments can be made for why Nugent would've made up the 1977 story that's the source of draft-dodging claims the Vietnam War was unpopular and it would be very rock 'n' roll to claim you pulled one over on The Man.

    It's also worth noting Nugent has long been anti-drug, railing regularly against the "hippies" of the 1960s who zoned out often fatally on drugs. So if he were going to make up a story to a magazine, a pro-drug one would make sense.

    And plausible arguments can be made for why he would've made up the 2006 story about the first one being a hoax he wanted to protect his credibility as a patriotic conservative spokesman.

    The only objective conclusion that can be made is there's not enough evidence one way or the other.

    That said, if you're going to accuse someone of a crime, you must have better evidence than a single story in High Times magazine that has since been retracted by the source.

    Truth Meter: 4 (out of 10)

    Truth Meter and contact info

    Fact Checker columns by Mark Robison are rated on a scale from 0 to 10, with 10 being absolutely true with no gray area, 5 being down the middle with good points by both sides, 1 being false with no gray area and 0 being intentionally, maliciously or foolishly false.

    Email factchecker@rgj.com if you've got any queries about claims you've heard people make.

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 08-28-2018 at 05:10:36 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Take A Knee // Uh. . . .Ted Nugent?
  • ...and OWEbamma was born in Hawaii...

    mthomas    Posted 08-28-2018 at 08:54:25 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Take A Knee // Uh. . . .Ted Nugent?
  • To condense this, are you saying that he is either a liar or a draft dodger? Or perhaps you are merely stating that he is a political animal. When it is popular to denigrate the military he does that, and when it is popular to praise the military he does so to bolster his persona. Either way, his behavior is pretty low class, and with the records pretty much gone we only have his word.

    I suppose next we will hear that Romney did not hide in Paris. One of the biggest reasons for opposition to the draft was that your chances of being drafted decreased significantly if you had money on your side. Legal avoidance and honorable avoidance are not one and the same.

    As to his respect for the law, perhaps we should examine Nugent's poaching charges.

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 08-30-2018 at 06:34:04 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Take A Knee // Uh. . . .Ted Nugent?
  • Typical liberal response -avoid the root cause issue - "Taking A Knee" -and try to change/distract the reader from the topic. OK, so you are saying that Ted Nugent, who was 18 in 1966, avoided the draft because he was a rich snob? Do you have facts to back that up? Ted was two years into a new Detroit area rock band called 'The Amboy Dukes' who were making it big on a local scale with their hit "Journey To the Center of the Mind", of which he co-wrote when he was 17. Do you know what musical artists received back then for royalties? Half-pennies, pennies if lucky, per record sold. Also, the selective service did not begin a lottery for drafting eligible young men for service in Vietnam until 1969. The system delegated that young men born between 1944 and 1950 would then be selected for military service after taking and passing the physical and mental exams. It also defined that the youngest men would be selected first. Thus, in 1969 Ted would have been 21. It is ironic how all the crap about Ted's draft status came out AFTER he moved to Texas in anticipation of running for governor. Just like all the false news claims of his 'poaching', it only exemplifies more liberal tactics to derail any right-thinking conservative American from getting into politics.

    Tim Daley(MI)

    Dean    Posted 08-30-2018 at 08:11:52 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Take A Knee // Uh. . . .Ted Nugent?
  • Again, I find it amusing (and predictable) that we know so much about the adolescence of Ted Nugent yet know just about nothing about BHO.

    Gotta love it.


    mthomas    Posted 08-30-2018 at 13:38:25 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Take A Knee // Uh. . . .Ted Nugent?
  • Ted was not 18 when he did the interview in which he stated he crapped his pants for a week to avoid the draft.

    Other than story content, if he falsely stated this in the interview, he is no different in this respect than Hillary. Remember her dodging sniper bullets to gain political traction?

    Either he lied in the interview, or he crapped his pants and took drugs with the specific purpose of dodging the draft. You cannot judge one group of politicians by one standard and another group by a different standard and be honest with yourself.

    I brought up the poaching incident merely to point out that he claimed to have lied in the interview, but somehow we are supposed to believe him to be honest about not being a poacher. A good piece of advice is that when someone tells you who and what they are by actions, you should believe them.

    My being liberal is the best joke I have heard in a long time. Try thinking honestly rather than slandering someone because you refuse to think honestly.

    Dean    Posted 08-30-2018 at 13:53:54 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Take A Knee // Uh. . . .Ted Nugent?
  • What does this have to do with what little we know about known pot head BHO?


    Dean    Posted 08-28-2018 at 06:59:20 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Take A Knee // Uh. . . .Ted Nugent?
  • Exactly, Tim.

    We seem to know so very much about a 60s/70s rock and roller yet know nothing about BHO.

    One wonders but the mainstream media yawns.


    Dean    Posted 08-27-2018 at 15:38:26 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Take A Knee
  • I think it would be a good idea for everyone in the Armed forces to take a knee the next time that we are attacked and turn things over to those spoiled children in the NFL to handle.


    Jim Rushford    Posted 08-27-2018 at 20:33:25 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Take A Knee
  • Let's have a double AMEN to that.

    mhb@ufe    Posted 08-27-2018 at 15:32:50 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Take A Knee
  • AMEN!

    [Back] [Return to Top of Forum]