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Subject: water in transmission

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Doug    Posted 10-22-2021 at 06:19:36 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • water in transmission
  • upon inspection last night it was discovered the the transmission and hydraulic sump have a bit of water in them. all milky and gross looking and the three point will not move at all. I did read Carl's "Cleaning out the Hydraulic Sump" in the how to section but that would seem to work for just changing the oil and maybe cleaning the bottom of the sump. any ideas or other procedures anyone can offer to clean that milky oil from the sump? thank you.

    Bruce(VA)    Posted 10-22-2021 at 08:25:55 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: water in transmission
  • Save yourself some time and money; nothing you put in there will get the hard packed crud out of the bottom of the pump.

    Drop the pump and do it correctly.

    Otherwise, just change the fluid and move on.

    Any UTF that meets the Ford spec M2C41D will work fine in your N tractor. Just read the label on the container.

    I use the UTF from TSC year around here in VA.

    You will find the UTF to work a lot better below 32* F than 80/90 w oil.

    See tips 3 & 4 below.

    Do NOT overfill it. If you overfill it, the excess will leak past the wheel seals and get on your brakes.

    Unless the sump is totally clean, a dry sump will only take about 4.5 gallons. Remove the lower bolt on the inspection plate, add 4.5 gallons and come back the next day to see if it is dripping. Remember, it takes a long time for that oil to get back there.

    Want to do it correctly? Dropping the pump is not a big deal.

    Resist the temptation to save 5 minutes by parking it nose down in a ditch instead of draining the fluid. The front transmission seal was not designed to be totally immersed in oil. If it's defective, you will fill the bell housing with oil and then you will get to replace the clutch.

    With all of the fluid drained out, block the front wheels & get the rear wheels up at least a foot. (you'll see why soon enough) Remove the 4 bolts holding the PTO shaft in & pull it to the rear & out of the tractor. Loosen all of the bolts. Remove all but 2 corner bolts. Then, carefully remove them. If you are lucky, the pump will drop free (and dump a pint or so of hydraulic fluid down your sleeves). If not, wrestle it free. The pump has 'ears' that fit into the housing; wiggle it a bit & it will drop free. If you have the rear tires a foot or more off of the ground, you will have enough arm room to hold the pump & lower it at the same time. Put it on your work bench & remove the safety valve (p/n 638) and the control arm lever (p/n 643) which will allow you to remove the intake & exhaust valves (p/n's 640 & 698) Drop all of it in a bucket of diesel (or mineral spirits) or your parts washer & let it soak overnight. Once it has a good soaking, get it on the bench & start blowing it out w/ compressed air. Run cleaning fluid into the hydraulic discharge near the test port & make sure you get a good flow out the small hole in the side of the pump were the control valve fits. I don't see much need to pull it down any further just to clean it. But, I always replace the safety valve (p/n 638, about $25) Reinstalling the pump is harder than pulling it out because you have a gasket to worry about. (no sealer on the gasket) And, you will probably need a helper to guide the control rod into the pump rocker shaft unless you've done this 6 or 7 times before!

    While you have the PTO shaft out, it would be a good time to replace the seal on it. It's got two spring clamps around it. Take your needle nose pliers & remove the one in the front. Then, hang the shaft & bearing housing in your vice & tap the butt end of the shaft; the bearing cap will come off (and the shaft will land on your foot). Then, remove the other spring clip from the other side of the bearing. At this point, remember that you never bought a seal driver & go get a BF socket & drive the seal out. If you have the new style seal, the white side goes out. (open side to the oil) Put some grease on it.

    Contrary to conventional wisdom, not a lot of water gets in the oil from the shifter boot. Of course, if it's bad, replace it, but you get water from the draft control spring & the dipstick. But, most water is just a byproduct of the heating/cooling cycle of the oil. I've seen the pictures of an experiment to test the 'leaky shifter boot' theory. With no shifter boot installed, a lot of water was poured over the transmission cover sitting over a 5 gallon bucket. Result? No water in the bucket.

    You'll need a pump gasket, safety valve, inspection plate gasket(s), PTO seal, PTO gasket, gasket sealer & 5 gallons of fluid to do all of the above.

    Doug    Posted 10-22-2021 at 09:15:01 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: water in transmission
  • perhaps i should have mentioned this is an 53 NAA. does that change the process?

    Bruce(VA)    Posted 10-22-2021 at 11:03:45 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: water in transmission
  • Totally

    doug    Posted 10-22-2021 at 11:33:34 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: water in transmission
  • so we tried to move the three point but that didn't happen because with this crap it would build pressure to cycle the three point. so it MAY not be in the pump or in the hydraulics. with any luck. so im hoping i just have to drain the sumps. i would like to do it the correct way so.... what would that be.

    raski    Posted 10-22-2021 at 06:40:31 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: water in transmission
  • Take a close look at the shifter's boot.

    Bruce(VA)    Posted 10-22-2021 at 08:24:01 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: water in transmission
  • MYTH # 8: If your shifter boot is worn or missing, water will get into the hydraulic sump.

    FACT: Contrary to conventional wisdom, not a lot of water gets in the oil from the shifter boot. Of course, if it's bad, replace it, but you get water from the draft control spring & the dipstick. But, most water is just a byproduct of the heating/cooling cycle of the oil. The oil never gets hot enough (like engine oil) to boil off the water and it condenses inside the case. And, even when you arenít operating the tractor, the oil and case heat and cool at different rates, also creating condensation. Look at the picture of the tire. The fluid in the tire is cooling at a different temperature than the outside air, which creates condensation. The same thing occurs with the oil in the case and you get water in the oil as a result.
    The purpose of the shifter boot is to keep dirt out of the hydraulic sump. If you look at the description of the part in the Master Parts Catalog, itís called a dust boot.

    Having a problem getting that new dust boot on? It will go on easily if you get the correct part. One size does NOT fit the 9/2N as well as the 8N. The part number for the 2/9N boot is 9N7277. The part number for the 8N boot is 8N7277 . And the reason they have different part numbers is because they are different sizes.

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