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Mike Groom    Posted 10-23-2009 at 14:52:08 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • I'm looking to expand my knowledge on Tugs,I have a Bno-25,and a Bno-40,according to the serial # one is a 1944 the other is a 1939,the 39 is the one that's confusing me the most,it has a serial # of BNO40 3079,the engine has freeze plugs (3)and what I read is they were not in the 39's,it has a cast dash,with a starter button on top of the trans.It also has oval radius rods with the correct bend,the rear fenders are extended 2 inches and radiused,(Nice Job)as a tool and die maker I can appreciate how hard this would be,not something done outside of a factory.It has 1/4 inch thick sheetmetal on the sides and a large square toolbox on the left side,also a large radius on the side panels,I'm not sure if this was a custom job or all redone after it left the plant. Also I talked to a man from Cleveland,Ohio and he said the Tugs were built there by Ferguson (they do have a Ferguson plate on them)and 3052 were built,I have a copy of a parts manual that I got from Dwight Emstrom,would like an original if anyone knows of one or any other literature on BNO's.Thanks in advance for any input you can give me,also I'm located in Northern IL. Mike

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 12-05-2009 at 07:25:05 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Hi Mike-
    How did you deduce your BNO-40 is a '39? The USA didn't get involved with WWII until 1942, but, that doesn't mean Moto-Tugs weren't produced before then, and it was the involvement with war that Ford was allowed to introduce the 2N in 1942. Do you know when Moto-Tug production started? I have heard the story too about being retro-fitted in Ohio somewhere, but no one can confirm. No records from the Rouge indicate they were produced there, I don't think. The Ferguson-Sherman partnership was dissolved by then and it was just Ferguson so a Ferguson only nameplate would fit the criteria. With only 3052 built, and many of those reportedly were shoved overboard at the end of the war, the remaining units would be hard to find as well as any parts as we know. I would guess complete 9Ns/2Ns minus PTOs were shipped to a Cleveland plant, perhaps overseen by the military, for Moto-Tug conversions. Just thinking out loud here...

    Tim Daley(MI)

    Fred (Grand Lake)    Posted 11-01-2009 at 15:53:24 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • We (U.S.Navy)had those PUP(s) we called them... PUP stands for "Pull U Plane" during my years in Korea war. Three tours from March 1951-September 1953. These PUPS would hook to the front wheel and pull the plane to spot it on the aircraft carrier deck, or pull it to be ready to launch. I have several photos of these deck tubs the enlisted men would drive. I know of one that sets at the bottom of Sea Of Japan off the coast of South Korea. One day two of these PUP driver were racing forward on the flight deck, when it became time to stop, one didn't make it. It went right off the front flight deck bow... driver and PUP.

    The first PUPS I remember were like the ones you mentioned here. Later on in mid 1953...or abouts, they went to the Jeep model PUPS.

    Paladin (Bob In PA)    Posted 11-17-2009 at 11:18:21 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • I am going to disappoint you guys on this because my tugs (including the parts only tug that I just bought) are still as received while I gather parts (and get some major repair work done to the barn).

    W/ respect to Vietnam experience, the Navy works in strange ways. I wound up on a destroyer escort and our main job was to ride shotgun on the electronics intelligence ship(s) (AGTR's) that sat off Cuba and vacuumed up transmissions (and decoded them, no doubt). The Navy did NOT want another Pueblo incident with the ELINT ship captured so we were the guard dog, so to speak. Hours, days and weeks of boredom hove to off the coast of Cuba in sight of the intelligence ship. Good fishing, though. I've never set foot in Havana but i've been 6 miles offshore.

    Bruce(VA)    Posted 11-17-2009 at 11:14:20 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: BNO-MOTO-TUGS -More War Stories
  • I spent one weekend on a tin can (DD 762). I gather they are a third or so larger than a DE. After that one weekend, I was firmly convinced that my decision to join the Army was one (perhaps the only one) of the few smart decisions I made at age 18.

    I can not imagine what life was like on those things in anything more than slight chop!

    Paladin(Bob in PA)    Posted 11-17-2009 at 11:11:27 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • They rolled, and they rolled, and they rolled . . .

    It was not fun being underway in heavy seas. Hard to eat meals, shipmates falling and slamming into lockers and so on (broken bones occasionally happened), hanging on to sit on the head, etc. Hard to imagine my father's generation underway on these DE's in WW2 in "WNA" (winter North Atlantic) conditions and then having to fight a war - dropping depth charges, firing hedgehogs, reloading the depth charge "K" guns, etc., and all with waves washing over the deck and below freezing conditions. But they did it and they didn't complain.

    I rarely saw the light of day! (actually just kidding). My world was 4 Fairbanks Morse H-16-4 opposed piston engines and the auxiliary generator and the steam boiler evaporators. Off Cuba, it would get to 120+ degrees in the engine room. The DE's were designed for a war in the North Atlantic, not tropical conditions.

    Bruce(VA)    Posted 11-17-2009 at 11:09:00 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Yea, I can't imagine being in the North Atlantic in the winter & having to fight a war. My father did; US Navy Armed Guard. They were the gunners on the Liberty Ships & T-2 tankers. My father crossed the Atlantic a few times, made one trip to Russia & then the Pacific. I wrote up the page at the link for him & my mother. The picture was taken in Recife Brazil, 1945. My Dad is on the far right. And, it's an Army motorcycle.....painted gray, numbers changed.

    I understand your comment about not seeing the light of day. I was in Norfolk VA on business a few months after the battleship Wisconsin was opened for tours. I was walking on the main deck when I overheard a younger guy pointing out things to the couple he was with; turns out he served on the ship in the Gulf War. But, in order to actually tour the ship, he had to come back as a civilian! As he said, it wasn't a cruise ship; you had a duty station, billeting area & a mess deck & you were not allowed any where else. He did say that when the ship was recommissioned, the crew had to find some WWII vets to explain some of the more obscure pumps, etc that the old blue prints didn't cover. He said more than one old vet related how his entire tour of duty, 24 - 36 months in some cases, was spent being in charge of 2 or 3 pumps. Below decks!

    wwildhorse2k    Posted 11-03-2009 at 18:35:14 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Hi --

    I was at my parts supplier and saw this mototug and took some pics.

    Paladin (Bob In PA)    Posted 11-04-2009 at 21:01:40 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • That may be just about the most original unrestored tug that I have ever seen.

    Two requests:

    1. How can I copy the complete set of photos over from your Photobucket account to my Photobucket account? I don't have a real original tug around to compare with - just two parts tugs and the body that came from a third and a copy of the parts manual. A picture is worth a thousand words. The pictures in the slide show have already solved a couple of mysteries for me.

    On Photobucket I am Paladin1PTD

    2. Do you know if it's for sale? If it is, I'm interested.



    wwildhorse2k    Posted 11-05-2009 at 07:37:57 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • It is not for sale -- just waiting to be picked up. As far as copying the pics to your account -- I know you can down load them to your pC then post them to your account

    Im glad these helped I did make a video of the tug also

    Mike Groom    Posted 10-24-2009 at 23:19:07 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Did someone put a copy of the parts manual on this site in the manual listing so it could be downloaded? It would be great if someone could share that with us. Mike

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 12-05-2009 at 07:06:25 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Hi Mike-
    We are working on getting the parts manual uploaded here in our manuals section. Hang on!

    Tim Daley(MI)

    Mike Groom    Posted 10-23-2009 at 16:58:59 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Bob,I didn't mean to imply that I knew the years of produstion of Moto-Tugs,just that the serial # fell into the year range of the production of 9Ns and 2Ns,if they had a different serial # system that theory goes right out the window.Just looking for new knowledge. Thanks

    Paladin (Bob In PA)    Posted 10-23-2009 at 20:56:04 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Shoot, I thought that you had it nailed! Seriously, there is so little documented info out there on these critters. Dwight Emstrom is probably the most knowledgable person around. Harold Brock was kind of dismissive of the whole Moto-Tug thing when I talked to him on the phone. Ford was making B-24's for the gov't, and jeeps and other military vehicles including some kind of armored scout car for the Brits and Brock just indicated that the Moto-Tug thing was a sideshow. Just a couple of thousand of them, no big deal. A favor to the gov't by Henry.

    Some tugs came with Harry Ferguson builders tags and some did not. Some had the second chair on the left side for a rider. I think that it may have doubled as a tool chest. I've been collecting tug photos wherever I can find them and it looks like a lot of local customization took place. They seem to have had all sorts of brackets welded on here and there to hang chains, tow ropes, etc..

    Somewhere, somehow there have to be some records on these things. I wonder if anything would be left in the Ford historical archives?

    Paladin (Bob In PA)    Posted 10-23-2009 at 14:55:35 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Mike:

    I own two BNO 40's, #327 and #641. I am a bit surprised that you said that you can determine production years as that is info that I do not have and I would surely like to have if you would post it. I called Harold Brock a few months back and talked to him about the tugs. He seemed to believe that Ford made them at the Rouge plant. He treated them as a side show, something that the government requested of Henry F. for the war effort and Henry went along. This would make the earliest production date 1942, but Harold's memory seemed to be pretty fuzzy. Both of my tugs, which are low serial number tugs, show all the markings of production in or around 1942 - sheet metal dash, I beam radius rods, hinged battery box door, 2N radiators (pressurized). I don't see any of the features of earlier 9N production (I own about 7 9N's so I have plenty around to compare to).

    The tugs WERE offered in civilian sales. I have a copy of an original sales brochure. You could order the tug in Ford gloss gray, US Navy flat gray or US Army flat olive drab. The sales brochure shows a pic of a guy in an airline baggage handler's uniform driving a tug. The tug has "Ford" hubcaps on it, which do not appear in the parts manuals.

    Don Barkley has an original parts manual in his manuals library. He was good enough to make me a copy. Gary Zielke sold me a tug body and he apparently also has a manual. Don't know if it is original. His late dad restored a tug and put it in a museum. Gary himself is not into tug restorations.

    Roger Weingardt in Las Vegas has a BNOS 40 or 25 (not sure) tug in his collection. This was the cast iron wheel and solid rubber tire version. It is "farmerized" and not restored. It is the only surviving "S" tug that I know of.

    Hope this info helps. We should really post all of this over on the "History" board. Any info on tugs is scarce and it is a great help if we can share it.


    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 10-23-2009 at 14:57:16 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Hi Bob-
    So the Moto-Tugs had their own serial number identifcation then? Are the s/n's stamped in same place as normal blocks? I am going to move this over to our HISTORY section and will direct posts there. Thanks for sharing.

    Tim Daley(MI)

    Ed Gooding (VA)    Posted 11-01-2009 at 08:06:38 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Tim, here are some moto-tug pics that I have grabbed from here and there:

    Ken N Tx    Posted 11-01-2009 at 22:16:17 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: BNO-MOTO-TUGS Pics
  • Some more..

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 11-01-2009 at 15:58:09 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Here are a few more pictures from my library...

    Mike (Bellevue, MI)    Posted 11-01-2009 at 15:51:05 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  

  • If it helps relate to the topic, my dad drove a tug on the carrier U.S.S Tarawa. He said the most danger was from their own guys. He seen many planes crash into the ship.

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 11-01-2009 at 09:04:16 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Thanks, Ed! It'll be nice to keep pictures with the subject for anyone curious as to what they looked like. heck, someone may know of one hidden in a barn or old shed somewhere but never knew what it was...


    Paladin (Bob In PA)    Posted 10-23-2009 at 14:59:16 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Tim:

    The answer is yes. They were serial numbered BNO 40 XXX or BNO 25 XXX Nobody knows what BNO stands for. The serial numbers are in the usual place on the 2N block.

    The 40's had dual rear wheels and a higher rated towing capacity, and were weighted up to 4,000 lbs.

    The 25's weighed 2500 lbs - about what a regular 2N weighed, and had single rear wheels.

    There were differences in gear ratios between the two, also.

    A real rarity would be the BNO S 40's or BNO S 25's. These were supplied from the factory with solid iron wheels and solid tires. I have only heard of one of these still in existence.


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