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Subject: #404

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AL CT    Posted 03-03-2017 at 08:31:08 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • #404
  • Happened to see this EBay listing. #404 @ $52,500.
    Sandy Steward sold #474 at Racine this summer, almost immediately that same tractor headed to a Mecum Auction in Davenport and sold for $53,000. I can't say for sure, but I think this is the same seller for #404 and 474. #474 went to Delaware, where #404 is presently located.
    No connection just a conveyor of information.

    AL CT    Posted 03-03-2017 at 14:31:19 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Correct # is 407
  • I just received an email asking that I correct my mistake in quoting the 9N listed on EBay for sale is 404, actually it's number 407. I'll contribute this to poor eye sight or fat fingers.

    I'm sorry if this caused any inconvenience or misunderstanding.

    Gaspump    Posted 03-03-2017 at 13:29:47 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: #404
  • Sure is a testimony to the fact that there are some folks with totally misguided priorities out there.

    Del Huebner    Posted 03-03-2017 at 10:24:43 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: #404
  • I pointed out some items on the last all original aluminum hood 9N that was listed and took some heat for nit-picking. On this one I will only say I hope the buyer does their homework.

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 03-04-2017 at 07:19:38 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: #404
  • HiYa Del-
    I wouldn't feel guilty by the naysayers who say we are 'nitpickers' at all. I believe in honesty, and as an originality nut and restorer, I strive to know, am proud to know, I have done my homework, on what is and isn't a correct, original part. Ignorance is one thing but trying to deceive the buying crowd is another. By pointing out the faults, we are dong any potential buyers a favor as they probably don't know either. As a buyer, one should do the grunt work to verify what he is really getting into. Just listing something as 'all original' doesn't just make it so. Because dad's 9N had a Krinchmeyer Knob on it when he had it doesn't make it original, right?

    Tim Daley(MI)

    AL CT    Posted 03-03-2017 at 09:29:59 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: #404
  • I looked closely at the photos. The seller states correct wheels. However the hat rims are NOT the original lug style. Just saying!!!!

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 03-03-2017 at 19:30:10 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • The POOP on LOOPS
  • Yes fellas, the Hat Rims came a bit later in '39, but when is not documented in any MPC's. They are one of those items that fell thru the cracks when the 9N first hit the scene and changes were made fast and furious. No one can positively say at what serial number the hat rims appeared, but they did come out in 1939 sometime. Note mounting bolts were 5/8-18 hex heads. Photos courtesy of good friend and Ford-Ferguson 9N Guru Jason Grooms.


    EARLY 9N 6-LOOP STYLE REAR RIM:

    CLOSE-UP; LOOP, CAST IRON, RIVETED CONTRUCTION:

    HENRY FORD, JUNE 29, 1939, WORLD PREMIER OF THE 9N -FAIRLANE ESTATE, DEARBORN, MICHIGAN:

    Tim Daley(MI)

    Bruce Dorsi    Posted 03-04-2017 at 10:16:16 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Follow-up question:
  • So, did the early loops have one side closed with a hole in them for the bolt shank?

    Today's loop rims are open on both sides of the loop.

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 03-04-2017 at 16:29:20 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Follow-up question:
  • Hi Bruce -
    NO, the loops go thru. The width of the loop is just enough to keep the hex head bolt from spinning around. I have a few sets of Hat Rims, and one set of aftermarket loops. I have my work tires on those for my 8N and use 5/8-11 carriage bolts. I never thought of trying to see if a hex head bolt would work in the loops. maybe you or someone else can chime in about that. Depends on the width of loop too to secure the hex head.

    Tim Daley(MI)

    Bruce Dorsi    Posted 03-04-2017 at 21:18:17 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • It's me again!
  • Tim, I understand the loop keeps the hex from turning, but looking at the close-up in your pic above, what keeps the hex from pulling through the loop if it is open on both sides?

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 03-05-2017 at 15:14:31 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: It's me again!
  • I got it now, Bruce. yes, there is a shelf to prevent the hex head bolt from falling thru...

    ORIGINAL 9N LOOP-CLOSE-UP:


    Tim Daley(MI)

    Bruce Dorsi    Posted 03-05-2017 at 19:02:38 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Thanks, Tim.
  • Thank you.

    Joel W    Posted 03-03-2017 at 21:20:47 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: The POOP on LOOPS
  • What is more unique about the mounting bolts (rim to wheel center) is that not only are they 5/8-18 thread but the dimension hex head of the bolts are 1-1/16" across the flats, this is because the inside dimension of the square loops is 1-1/8". Standard 5/8-18 bolts have a hex head dimension of 15/16" across the flats.

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 03-04-2017 at 07:10:24 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: The POOP on LOOPS
  • Yes, good point Joel. The hex bolts also used the 33806-S7 5/8 Hex Nuts as well, again with 1-1/16" AF. I should also point out that I had been told the loops were cast iron but I seriously doubt it. They were most likely cast steel as cast iron would be too brittle to use in that application, in my opinion. The rivets too are not dome/round headed, rather flat headed. There was a fella a few years ago in the N-News who made his own and I believe Steve Dabrowski made a set or is the process of making his own as well for his early 9N. More listing errors the seller makes is about the dash gauges. The ones on this tractor are not original. They are aftermarket and the ammeter should be the 20/20 screw terminal style, used up til s/n 4000 when they changed to the induction LOOP style. Also, the left lift arm should be threaded/adjustable, probably used up til the end of the aluminum hood production run at s/n 700/800, but yet another item that fell thru the cracks. I can't tell by the poor pictures, but he lists the 'correct, small generator' too, yet it's unclear if it is the 'A' or 'B' generator. It should be the 'A' and be using the rectangular Voltage Regulator, but, bad photos makes it questionable. The 'B' generator would use the round can cutout with the retro-fit installation kit. The four spoke steering wheel and the horizontal bar aluminum grille are most likely the new repop styles, but that is one area we originality restorers will allow slide as we know how hard it is to find good originals. I don't think the seller really knows what he has. As stated previously, he's just in it for the $$$. He's only listing what he was told . That is a common error made by many tractor sellers and buyers. How many times have we heard, "...well, it had a Krinchmeyer Knob on it when dad had it so it must be original..."? Just a FYI, when the Hat Rims were introduced, they went to the 5/8-18 x 2-11/16" Round Head/Square Shoulder (i.e. special Carriage Bolt)to secure center discs to wheel rims. They also used the 351505-S7 special size 5/8 flat washer and the 33806-S7 5/8 Hex Nut as well.


    Tim *PloughNman* Daley(MI)

    *9N653I* & *8NI55I3*

    Steve Dabrowski    Posted 03-04-2017 at 19:49:21 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: The POOP on LOOPS
  • As you note I am working (ever so slowly) on a set of loop rims for my Aluminum Hood 39, but it is actually Joel W above who has managed to make up the first pair using the same newly cast replica loops we both managed to secure. Don't think more are going to come due to the costs.

    Joel W    Posted 03-05-2017 at 08:31:56 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: The POOP on LOOPS
  • with a lot of help from Steve and others it was a time consumption task - however side by side its tough to tell the difference between the fabricated rim and the original rim. the cliff notes to the project are below - will give Steve the honor of the detailed instructions!

    photo below is 12 cast loops (in between) 9 original loops

    cut 1" out of the center of blank rim

    clamp and weld back together

    use wheel center to mount loops - mark rims where to fasten

    fasten loops to rim

    prime rims

    Del Huebner    Posted 03-05-2017 at 10:17:41 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: The POOP on LOOPS
  • Great work Joel, is there a casting mold available for making the loops? I will give you guys a lot of credit for taking the time, labor and money to complete this project.

    Tim Daley(MI    Posted 03-04-2017 at 21:00:21 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: The POOP on LOOPS
  • Steve-
    I as well as many others here await you finished product and know you will submit another excellent DIY How-To on what you did to fabricate yours. Since the chances are slim on finding a set of decent original loop rims, we can only succumb to the task od making our own.

    Tim Daley(MI)

    Tom    Posted 03-04-2017 at 09:14:44 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: The POOP on LOOPS
  • What's the deal with 28" loop rims? When were they offered?

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 03-04-2017 at 16:20:45 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: The POOP on LOOPS
  • Yes the loopies originally came in 32" and shortly after 28" sizes. That's why we believe they were used for a while, at least first 800 or so units until the hat rims appeared. The first MPC (Master Parts Catalog) for the Ford-Ferguson 9N Tractor was released March 15, 1940. We have it here as a FREE download in our MANUALS forum -see LINK below. It lists both 32" and 28" Hat Rim style but no mention of the Loopies.

    Tim Daley(MI)

    Louis A    Posted 03-03-2017 at 17:33:58 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: #404
  • The early style loop rims are NOT hat rims!

    AL CT    Posted 03-03-2017 at 18:29:32 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: #407
  • That I know. I was pointing out the hat rims are not the early lug style rims.

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