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Subject: Ford Industrial 172/192 Woes - Running Smooth Smoking

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Jon Rhee ( RI)    Posted 06-11-2017 at 08:37:05 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Ford Industrial 172/192 Woes - Running Smooth Smoking
  • I resolved the rough running thanks to those who guided me to really scrutinize the ignition system in this tractor. I bought a new spark checker, the adjustable type and sure enough the spark was intermittent at each cylinder. I decided to buy a new set of points and condenser and sure enough this cured the problem. She starts and runs smoothly and idles down to the 600 rpm nicely.

    I do not see oil coming from the exhaust pipe any more - I think this was due to the engine not firing. What I do have now is that she smokes a lot when running at above idle rpm. I don't see much smoke at idle. When I throttle up theres a lot of blue smoke. I pulled the head again to go through the valve train which I did not look at before. When I pulled the head #3 and #4 had black oil in the compression chamber. The valves all seem ok, but need lapping. The stems are 1/2 thousanth under spec ( .341 as opposed to .3415) the bore was .344-.345 across the board. Spec calls for .001-.002 clearance on the intakes so I am out of spec by .001-.002. Could this result in the smoke? The seals were very hard but intact. I have new seals from my gasket kit. Compression is over spec in all cylinders I have 165psi, 170, 165, 180. Any thoughts?

    steveVa    Posted 06-11-2017 at 10:42:51 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Ford Industrial 172/192 Woes - Running Smooth Smoking
  • New valve seals wouldn't hurt. After all that is what they are there for. But if you have some stuck oil rings it will still smoke. But they too may loosen up if you run it a bit and work it. How much have you run it? It could take awhile to get all the oil out of the system especially if you had oil dripping out of the exhaust. I would run it a while and see if the smoke don't clear up. Good compression is usually a good sign. But 165 is not exactly high...

    Jon Rhee(RI)    Posted 06-11-2017 at 16:42:22 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Ford Industrial 172/192 Woes - Running Smooth Smoking
  • Hey Steve,

    I got the tractor a year ago and it was smoking bad then. The #3 plug was caked solid. I cleaned her up a bit, replaced plugs, points, condenser and new oil and coolant. She was running ok but chuffing. One day I had her idling and poof she lost power and quit with a huge cloud of smoke and oil coming out exhaust. I suspect the head gasket was compromised for some time and finally blew under my ownership.

    Sure enough there was a 5/8 inch missing chunk of gasket and melted metal edges in the exhaust. 165psi exceeds specs according to Ford Power Products, though the high cylinder is 180 psi. Maybe some Marvel Mystery Oil on the pistons to free the rings while I have them open?

    I like your idea of just running it and working it. Ive had it about 2 years with barely any use. The previous owner had it sitting in his yard for a year he said... I suspect its been unused for a long time.

    36 coupe    Posted 06-12-2017 at 14:20:38 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Ford Industrial 172/192 Woes - Running Smooth Smoking
  • Put a pint of MMO in the oil and see if smoking stops.I used this since the 50s on smokers.MMO is 27% Stoddard solvent.I would not leave MMO in the crank case long term.I foud it will attack the O ring in 640 series tractors.

    Jon Rhee (RI)    Posted 06-12-2017 at 18:52:09 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Ford Industrial 172/192 Woes - Running Smooth Smoking
  • I have poured a little MMO on the pistons and am letting it sit there for a while to see if it frees up a stuck oil ring. I had some in the oil before but since the head gasket blew I changed the oil due to the water in it.

    36 coupe    Posted 06-14-2017 at 04:37:51 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Ford Industrial 172/192 Woes - Running Smooth Smoking
  • MMO has to spend some time in the engine to be effective.I have seen smoke reduce in 3 hours run time.Top rings are usually stuck on oil pumpers.Milling an OHV engine head reduces valve clearance.You must check valve clearance.I checked new engines as part of dealer prep on new cars.I found some tight valves on new engines.

    Jon Rhee (RI)    Posted 06-14-2017 at 06:40:14 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Ford Industrial 172/192 Woes - Running Smooth Smoking
  • I've let the MMO sit on the pistons several times now. Its working its way down past the rings on a couple of cylinders over an hour or two. The other 2 it stays puddled. Not sure which is the better condition since its thin.

    I did adjust valve clearance after the head was planed. Now looking at my valves, the exhaust valves mating surface is pitted. I was going to lap them but the manual only discusses grinding the seats and valves, or replacing the seats and or valves. Is lapping not an option?

    TheOldHokie    Posted 06-15-2017 at 09:56:49 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Ford Industrial 172/192 Woes - Running Smooth Smoking
  • It's an OHV engine so the head can easily go to a shop for professional valve grinding and reseating. That should be relatively inexpensive and far superior to lapping worn/pitted valves and seats that need reconditioning. New guides and seals would also be on my list.

    TOH

    Jon Rhee(RI)    Posted 06-15-2017 at 12:28:38 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Ford Industrial 172/192 Woes - Running Smooth Smoking
  • I brought it down this morning to the station at the bottom of my hill. He does machining and racing engines too. I measured my stem clearance which was 0.004 and the specs are .001-.002. Didnt sound bad to me but he pointed out that it was twice what it should be. He's going to check everything again and give me a recommendation. I told him I'd seen the valve train kits on AGKits.com - he has sources too I'm sure. I'll post back on the results.

    TheOldHokie    Posted 06-15-2017 at 13:04:52 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Ford Industrial 172/192 Woes - Running Smooth Smoking
  • IMO $115 for new springs, valves, and guides plus reasonable labor charges to cut the seats and install the guides is well worth the results. I also agree with your machinist - .004 stem clearance is pretty loose - especially on an engine that apparently does not have valve stem seals. If he can fit seals to those guides I would probably do that as well.

    TOH

    Jon Rhee (RI)    Posted 06-15-2017 at 13:24:29 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Ford Industrial 172/192 Woes - Running Smooth Smoking
  • It does have seals. Mine were intact but hard. I have replacements already but I think they come in the kit from Agkits as well. Im not sure if the seat is included or if that would just be reground.

    TheOldHokie    Posted 06-15-2017 at 18:13:28 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Ford Industrial 172/192 Woes - Running Smooth Smoking
  • Seat replacement is not the norm unless the seats are cracked or have so much recission they cannot be restored to the proper geometry. I saw no mention of seats or seals on the AgKits web page.

    TOH

    Jon Rhee (RI)    Posted 06-15-2017 at 18:59:26 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Ford Industrial 172/192 Woes - Running Smooth Smoking
  • Ah, thanks for the seat info. This is work I'm not familiar with really. I didnt notice either on AgKits but when I bought my engine gasket kit it included the new seals. My Ford Power Products parts book shows part numbers for replaceable seats, though they appeared clean and without pits or cracks so hopefully they can remain with just a surfacing.

    36 coupe    Posted 06-14-2017 at 16:05:47 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Ford Industrial 172/192 Woes - Running Smooth Smoking
  • You can still use grinding compound and a valve stick.Drives the experts nuts but it still works.I have 2 cans of compound and a ZIM hand crank valve grinder.Valve grinding machines are nice but too expensive for the shade tree mechanic.

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