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Subject: Starter Ziinnggg!!

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49er swGA    Posted 06-17-2018 at 08:47:21 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Starter Ziinnggg!!
  • Quite frequently & intermittently, on the 50, the starter will Zinggg insteadda spinning the engine...
    It has always done it, since I picked it up...
    Whilst I had the starter off & on the bench for block repair & "freeze plugs replacement I looked, checked and lubricated the "bendix" portion...
    I`m running 12V conversion, so Power ain`t the problem, I don`t think?
    Unless Too much of it is the culprit...
    It was 12V when I got her... (back in the last century)
    It sure has a LONG starter drive!
    Dennis

    K.LaRue-VA    Posted 06-17-2018 at 21:45:32 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Starter Ziinnggg!!
  • The first 12 volt conversion I had did that. As soon as it was converted, it seemed like the 6 volt starter was hitting so hard the drive gear was not engaging completely, and the first pop was enough to kick the gear out. The starter would suddenly go zingggg! I eventually replaced the ring gear and put a new 12 volt starter on it.

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 06-18-2018 at 07:08:53 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Starter Ziinnggg!!
  • ZINGING!!! Ever jump start your 6V system with a 12V source? Those battery cables get HOT FAST don't they! You can hear the starter spinning stronger and faster too. Yes, I've had many N tractors come to me with so-called "12V conversions" and they simply had a 12V volt battery installed, replacing the 6V battery with nothing else changed. Starters don't really care if 6V or 12V, but if the circuit wiring is not correct, of course problems will arise. These guys bring me their non-starting tractors and want me to just rebuild or replace the starter. I'll first go thru a root cause problem solving method to pinpoint the exact issue, starting with a motoring test then a battery test. 9 times out 10 the starter is fine -it's almost always due to incorrect wiring in the rest of the circuit. Some listen some don't. The ones who don't will usually keep going on to someone who will do what they want to hear, and swap out the starter and then they are back to the same problem soon after. Some guys return to me and say, "... I put a new starter on and it still does the same thing...". In this world there are those who get it, those who don't, and those who never will.

    Tim Daley(MI)

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 06-17-2018 at 16:24:47 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Starter Ziinnggg!!
  • "I`m running 12V conversion, so Power ain`t the problem, I don`t think?" Wrong assumption. A 12V switch over job means nothing as far as power is concerned. Many of us with original 6V/POS GRN systems have no problems starting right up even in sub freezing temps. Why? Because we maintain them properly. Whether 6V or 12V you must maintain a battery that will sustain a charge under load. A starter zinging sounds like the battery is going dead or already dead. How old is it and is it the correct 12V GRP-25 or GRP-35 type? Take it to your local trusty starter/alternator shop and get it bench tested on their equipment to verify condition. If it checks bad, replace with a decent brand (INTERSTATE, DEKA, EXIDE), not a cheap Wally World type -poor to non-existent life spans. How did you 'test' and 'lube' the starter Bendix? Did you perform a motoring test? While battery is in the shop getting tested, go thru the entire wiring system to verify it is correct. See "WIRING PICTOGRAMS by JMOR" in our How To's. Find your set up and thoroughly check each wire by continuity, not by a visual 'color code' inspection. Do not deviate from the set up in PICTOGRAMS. If it doesn't match exactly, it ain't right so don't make another popular assumption that skipping a step or leaving out a part (or adding) is OK. Chances are your wiring is jazzed up too. Determine the root cause of the problem and fix it,then report back.

    Tim Daley(MI)

    49erswGA    Posted 06-17-2018 at 18:06:56 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Starter Ziinnggg!!
  • Thank you for these suggestions and a way to go as I advance in this adventure...
    I merely looked at gear faces springs and shaft on the starter as I had it off anyhow...
    Thanks again,
    dennis

    R Geiger    Posted 06-17-2018 at 09:29:25 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Starter Ziinnggg!!
  • It is probably time to replace the bendix, but that said you should never lube the bendix, lube attracts grit and causes more problems than it solves.

    49er swGA    Posted 06-17-2018 at 09:37:19 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Starter Ziinnggg!!
  • Whilst awaiting a reply, I had just looked into the How-to section and see the starter components and instructions for repair...

    As far as lube, It was NOT oil I used, triflon is not oily and will not collect undesirables...
    I`m hoping to find worn parts, and to build one from two, being as I have a spare...
    Thanks Mr.R Geiger for the quick response...
    Happy fathers day to all,
    Dennis

    49er swGA    Posted 06-17-2018 at 09:42:53 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Starter Ziinnggg!!
  • I like the idea of enlarging the hole for "more wiggle room" to get that sucker in & out!!!
    Wish me luck as I pursue this adventure...
    (after procrastinating of course)
    Dennis Crenshaw

    Tony C    Posted 06-17-2018 at 10:41:30 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Starter Ziinnggg!!
  • Hey Dennis,

    Clean up and dress with emery the housing real well as well as the starter, Same for cleaning the goo disguised as paint on the new ones. DOn't grind either part. They are designed for a tight fit. THe tight fit helps counteract the torque (not real great, but there) effect. If you do clearance it a little no big deal though, the clamping force of the bolts is more than enough. It's not like you are trying to fire a D11 CAT motor in twenty below.

    Here are a couple of things to think about relative to starter drives:

    When an engine stops, especially the Ford fours with the oddball firing order it generally stops with two pistons up and two down, consequently the wear on the starter ring is concentrated in four areas. Over time (six to seven decades) with a little wear on the Bendix gear and the ring gear wear one or two teeth on the flywheel get worn excessively. Zinggggg!

    A battery that is a little low coupled with an engine a little out of tune can cause it. THe engine hesitates or backfires imperceptibly as it begins to fire fooling the drive and the gear kicks out. Same for a cold blooded engine that hits on every other stroke of the firing order until it finally starts on all four, kinda like when a flooded engine tries to light. Zinggggg!

    IIRC there is no adjustment to take up the wear in the gears so the alternative is to replace the Bendix. Or the ring gear. Cheap and not hard to do the former, the latter ehhhhh not so much. If you absolutely positively have to lube the Bendix in spite of it not being necessary, molybdenum disulphide is another good choice. Hard for dirt to get into the bell unless a dust shield is off.

    49er swGA    Posted 06-17-2018 at 18:02:12 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Starter Ziinnggg!!
  • Thanks Tony C for this info!
    It is helpful to know these things... , fer sure!
    Being as I got a while before I gotta mow, I`ll probably procrastinate some more before I pull that starter back off I imagine...
    Dennis

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