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Subject: 9n Distributor not the problem

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David    Posted 08-09-2018 at 15:34:22 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • 9n Distributor not the problem
  • is not the problem
    got my tractor back here and the motor is seized
    the distributor had no choice it would not turn
    I thought there was more amiss when every time I took off the distributor
    the crank shaft was in the same position
    what should I do now any suggestions ?

    Bruce Dorsi    Posted 08-11-2018 at 13:44:49 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Where are you located, David?
  • If, by chance, you are located near another member, another pair of eyes may be helpful. ...Others may have more experience and can assist in guidance or repairs.

    These tractors have been around for many years, and they are relatively easy to repair. ...Just remember that ALL of us worked on our first repair at some point in time!

    Sorry to hear of your wife's medical problem. ....Hope she is recovering nicely!

    David    Posted 08-11-2018 at 18:22:41 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Where are you located, David?
  • I am from Madison Wisconsin
    thanks for your kind thoughts

    steveVa    Posted 08-10-2018 at 16:34:45 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 9n Distributor not the problem
  • The distributor is not the problem.
    That is correct.

    K.LaRue-VA    Posted 08-10-2018 at 12:53:27 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 9n Distributor not the problem
  • When you remove the distributor, the thing you see behind it is actually the end of the camshaft, not the crankshaft. If the starter turns the engine over, but every time you remove the distributor the camshaft is in the same position, it is very unlikely that the engine stopped at exactly the same place every time. At that point, yank on the fan belt and see if the camshaft moves. If not, the camshaft is not being turned by the crankshaft. This could mean the timing gear has come loose from the camshaft, or the timing gear is missing some teeth (as had already been suggested). One of the more common causes of camshaft timing gear problems is someone removed the governor and put the long bolt in the hole the short bolt came out of. Camshaft not turning is not a problem that can be fixed from the outside. The engine has to be at least partially disassembled. Rather than tackle internal engine repairs, most people will be shopping for a good used engine, or start parting that tractor out to get money to buy a different tractor.

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 08-10-2018 at 16:09:58 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 9n Distributor not the problem
  • Good call, Kevin. One of the questions asked early and not answered. Probably someone mucked with the governor and/or timing gear and passed on the problem to someone else. here's a 1941 9N engine on fleabay now. At $21 now and 3 bidders. Shipping will kill you though. I know the seller is about 65 miles north of me, have bought stuff from him before. I'm not trying to sell his stuff, but if anyone gets it, I can pick it up and store it here.

    Tim Daley(MI)

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 08-10-2018 at 04:42:50 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 9n Distributor not the problem
  • OK, you're not a mechanic, no shame in that, but you can learn things and work things out logically. Many of us are not “licensed” mechanics. Grandpa was probably not either, as they had to become ‘shadetree mechanics’, learning what is and what should never be. We learn by our mistakes, such is life. If you are willing to turn a wrench, you learn on the fly. You have shown you at least want to try. By asking questions for advice and help, we also learn from others. Ignoring that advice because of arrogance or feeling you’re not hearing the answer you want to you is illogical. Now, why do think the flywheel should be immersed in oil? The flywheel is connected to the crankshaft; the clutch pressure plate is bolted to the flywheel. You don't want the flywheel/pressure plate soaked in oil, so NO; there should be no oil on flywheel or in the bell housing. You can easily verify if an engine is frozen if you have a 9N-17040 hand crank that was issued with every new N tractor. Most have been lost in barns over the years and you can't use one if you have a grille guard/bumper attached. By using the hand crank, the crankshaft will turn or won't turn. Another clue would be, when trying to crank over the engine via the starter switch button, does the fan blade spin? If so, your engine/crankshaft is turning. I'm not ready to call it a mechanical failure. I'm still leaning towards messed up wiring. You're the guy with non-original N-Series generator right? If you posted some pictures. we may be able to spot something out of place.

    FORD N-SERIES TRACTOR STARTER POCKETS, 9N & 8N:


    Tim Daley(MI)

    Bruce (VA)    Posted 08-09-2018 at 16:17:43 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 9n Distributor not the problem
  • " the motor is seized"

    So, what happens when you press the starter button?

    HINT: if the motor is seized and you press the starter button, nothing happens.

    Right?

    And to follow up on JMOR's question......how long has this been going on?

    How were you checking voltage w/ the points open & points closed if the engine wasn't turning over?

    JMOR    Posted 08-09-2018 at 15:56:42 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 9n Distributor not the problem
  • If I may ask, how have you been trying to start it without realizing that the engine was not turning??

    David    Posted 08-09-2018 at 17:21:47 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 9n Distributor not the problem
  • If I am to assume that the crank turns the distributor
    the slot in the shaft has not moved once and remained in the same position
    for a long time
    I never did get the points to open and close checked the power on the top of coil and that is where I read 6.27 or so volts but when cranked it dropped to 5.7 volts so I guess they were opening and closing never got the half voltage you all said I should get
    I am no mechanic never touched a motor only to change fluids and filters all of this is a mystery to me so if I get some things wrong that is why
    biggest mistake so far was buying this tractor

    David    Posted 08-09-2018 at 17:38:00 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 9n Distributor not the problem
  • let me ask another seemingly dumb question
    when I took the starter off I looked in where the fly wheel(?) is
    and there is no oil fluid at all and by the signs of a mouse nest there hasn't been for a long time
    ,should there be fluid in the case?
    they fly wheel itself has surface rust on it and at the bottom of the case is a mouse nest
    on the right side of the fly wheel housing is a what appears to be a old observation port or some thing similar that was open it is aprox.1"in dia.I suspect that is where they gained entry

    Bruce    Posted 08-09-2018 at 18:06:53 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 9n Distributor not the problem
  • Why is it that you ignore the questions we ask and start down an unrelated path?

    Do you own the manuals?

    David    Posted 08-09-2018 at 18:25:32 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 9n Distributor not the problem
  • no disrespect but I have opened numerous threads on this here topic and have already answered your questions before
    I do have manuals but as you can see by my unrelated questions they are doing me no good

    Bruce    Posted 08-09-2018 at 18:32:02 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 9n Distributor not the problem
  • I must have missed your answer to my question " what happens when you press the starter button?"

    The bigger question is: do you want to fix the tractor or discuss matters totally unrelated to fixing it?

    JMOR    Posted 08-09-2018 at 17:32:09 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 9n Distributor not the problem
  • "Biggest mistake so far was buying this tractor". You mean you are not married? :)
    OK, the crankshaft turns the camshaft via gears between the two. The slot in end of camshaft turns the distributor. If crankshaft turns (pulley/belt/fan) but not camshaft, then likely that cam gear has missing teeth.

    Bruce (VA)    Posted 08-09-2018 at 17:31:54 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 9n Distributor not the problem
  • Remove one of the spark plugs.

    Put your finger over the plug hole.

    Hit the starter button. Do you feel compression?

    Do you own the manuals? (see tip # 39)

    David    Posted 08-09-2018 at 18:32:39 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 9n Distributor not the problem
  • Remove one of the spark plugs.

    Put your finger over the plug hole.

    Hit the starter button. Do you feel compression?

    yes I do feel compression
    and I have been married 36 years

    Bruce    Posted 08-09-2018 at 19:19:12 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 9n Distributor not the problem
  • Good.

    The engine is not seized.

    If the camshaft doesn't turn and the crank does, the cam gear is missing teeth as JMOR said.

    JMOR    Posted 08-10-2018 at 00:00:44 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 9n Distributor not the problem
  • Remove governor & look on the hole at the gear and rotate engine as you examine the gear.

    David    Posted 08-10-2018 at 13:39:43 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 9n Distributor not the problem
  • not much to examine locked up tight and its way more work than I care to do
    thanks for all your help

    Bruce (VA)    Posted 08-10-2018 at 14:08:46 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 9n Distributor not the problem
  • OK, now I'm totally lost.

    You said you can feel compression when you turn the engine over...….

    And now you say it's locked up tight.

    Which is it?

    If the engine is locked up, it won't create compression.

    David    Posted 08-10-2018 at 14:21:09 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 9n Distributor not the problem
  • took the governor off the timing gear will not move that is what is locked up

    Bruce (VA)    Posted 08-10-2018 at 14:30:46 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: 9n Distributor not the problem
  • But the crank moves, right?

    So the timing gear is probably missing teeth.

    Easy fix.

    Time consuming, but easy.


    $69 plus shipping.

    http://www.yesterdaystractors.com/7RA6256_Timing-Gear-Camshaft_1802.htm

    JMOR    Posted 08-10-2018 at 17:42:17 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: 9n Distributor not the problem
  • Bruce, don't you know that a couple of extra words to indicate 'won't turn with a crow-bar', or 'won't turn when crank turns', or ? will cost money. Words on the internet aren't cheap! :)
    Think of days before television & listening to radio, you just had to use your imagination. Same here.

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