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Subject: Setting points - 8N 6cyl Funk

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Brent (MN)    Posted 08-19-2018 at 21:36:41 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Setting points - 8N 6cyl Funk
  • New to tractor overhauls, and I got ahead of myself with "upgrading" the ignition components on my newly purchased 8N Ford Funk (226 6-cyl). I replaced the coil/points/condenser/distributor, but was not aware of the need to set the gap on the points.
    Any tips on how to do this, and what gap is needed for the points would be greatly appreciated.

    It was running before I took it apart to replace the main engine seals, but now it just cranks and cranks without firing. I pulled out a plug, left it connected to the ignition wire, and there was spark there. I literally felt it while holding the wire, that shouldn't happen right?

    Overconfident in MN,
    Brent

    JMOR    Posted 08-22-2018 at 18:46:19 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Setting points - 8N 6cyl Funk
  • Setting dwell with precision. Just drop degree wheel over distributor shaft, connect battery/bulb (Ohmmeter if you like), rotate until points closed & light ON, rotate CW until light just goes OFF & read at pointer, then rotate CCW until light just goes OFF and read pointer, take difference in readings & that is dwell angle. Adjust points until you get desired dwell.

    TheOldHokie    Posted 08-23-2018 at 08:31:33 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Setting points - 8N 6cyl Funk
  • That should be captioned "An empirical explanation of dwell for Dummies" ;-)

    TOH

    JMOR    Posted 08-23-2018 at 11:12:40 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Setting points - 8N 6cyl Funk
  • I don't know how to re-caption? Maybe I'll work on that later today? Maybe not. Maybe work on camera focus instead?

    Tom    Posted 08-22-2018 at 09:08:45 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Setting points - 8N 6cyl Funk
  • I agree with K.LaRue. Did you install the distributor with the timing correct? When no. 1 cylinder is at TDC on the compression stroke, the points must be about to open and the rotor pointing to the no. 1 spark plug terminal. Then if the point gap is set correctly a timing light can be used for final timing with the engine running.

    Jack - Iowa    Posted 08-20-2018 at 11:34:03 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Setting points - 8N 6cyl Funk
  • Found a listing on line for a 1948 Ford 226

    Only difference is it shows the Dwell Cam Angle: 36 degrees.

    If all is in order, once you get the Gap set correctly the Dwell will fall in place. The two are directly interrelated.

    TheOldHokie    Posted 08-20-2018 at 13:22:59 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Setting points - 8N 6cyl Funk
  • "If all is in order, once you get the Gap set correctly the Dwell will fall in place. The two are directly interrelated."

    Correct but somewhat misleading. For those that don't know it is dwell and not point gap that is important for proper ignition/combustion. Setting the point gap is simply an easy approximation for obtaining the initial dwell. As distributors and associated components wear that approximation becomes less and less accurate. In "the good old days" you started by setting the point gap and then measured the resulting dwell with a meter. If dwell was off you "tweaked" the gap until you obtained the proper dwell. That was a PITA iterative process that you could do by hooking up your meter while the cap and rotor were off and cranking the engine with the starter. Or you could put the cap and rotor on, start the engine, and measure the dwell. If off pop the cap, tweak the gap, and repeat as needed. Not the most desirable solution and GM addressed it by adding an externally accessible "dwell adjustment window" to their distributors. It made it easy to "tweak" the gap and obtain the correct dwell while the engine was running by using an allen key inserted through that window. Once you had dwell dialed in you then adjusted timing.

    TOH

    Jack - Iowa    Posted 08-20-2018 at 16:33:24 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Setting points - 8N 6cyl Funk
  • Thank you for clarifying what I wrote. You are absolutely correct and I would much prefer for him to understand it correctly.

    As explanation, these are the facts. As stated I was a self taught farm boy. Bought my first car, a Model T, at age 15 in 1945. Did not buy a car with Kettering ignition until I was 18. In the meantime I did maintain my mother's cars. Ford, DeSota and Terraplane

    Can not say when I first heard the word Dwell. At some time, probably in the late 50's I built myself a dwell meter. Up to that point I had never checked Dwell. For 10 to 15 years just adjusted the points and ran. My only commercial dwell meter was built for 12 volt automobiles.

    So you can understand why I sort of coast right by Dwell.

    Jack

    Jack - Iowa    Posted 08-20-2018 at 15:37:55 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Setting points - 8N 6cyl Funk
  • That was the one thing I ever sorta envied a GM owner for. As you said the other procedure was a PITA. As a self taught Iowa Farm boy it's a miracle they ever ran at all.

    Brings back memories of long, long ago!

    Jack - Iowa    Posted 08-20-2018 at 09:47:08 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Setting points - 8N 6cyl Funk
  • 1958 Ford Shop Manual is as close as I can come. Use at your own discretion.

    6 cyl is listed as a 223 cu. in.

    Firing Order: 1-5-3-6-2-4

    Initial Ignition Timing 4 B.T.D.C. ( 6 Maximum )

    Dwell: 35 - 38

    Gap: 0.024 - 0.026 inch

    Dwell and Gap for a Loadomatic Distributor - May not be exactly correct for yours but likely close.

    Good Luck,

    Jack

    K.LaRue-VA    Posted 08-20-2018 at 08:10:37 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Setting points - 8N 6cyl Funk
  • Yes, you can get a pretty good jolt right thru the insulation of the spark plug wires. When taking it apart to replace seals, did you remove the distributor? "not aware of the need to set the gap on the points" might mean not aware to correctly time distributor to engine. Are you sure the timing between crank and camshaft didn't get changed? Antique gas engines are low tech, but there are a few things that have to be just right for them to start and run.

    Bruce(OR)    Posted 08-20-2018 at 00:05:04 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Setting points - 8N 6cyl Funk
  • From the back yard of the way I get myself out of these problems, Locate engine specs on another 6 cyl Ford of the same era. Point gap and timing and the firing order, that I bet you mixed up, should all be listed. Getting tickled while holding the ignition wire might actually depend on the style ignition wire you have as well as the age.
    Best way to tell if the wires are dead goes back to my earlier days when I raised the hood of my car running at night. I had a wonderful light show going on with the plug wires that were glowing everywhere. If your running 8MM silicon wires on an upgraded ignition system, then you should not be getting tickled holding onto the wires.
    If your running cloth wires going back to 1950, then you might be very well getting tickled.

    Brent (MN)    Posted 08-22-2018 at 09:31:25 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Setting points - 8N 6cyl Funk
  • Excellent info, thanks for the "online training" guys.
    I have not measured gap yet, but intend to.
    Update is that with dumb luck I was able to get the tractor moving on it's own power the other night.
    Combination of inadvertently leaving the gas line on overnight, putting the original rotor cap back in place under the distributor cap, and swapping out the starter solenoid.
    It seems to idle fine for the most part, but will suddenly sputter out/load up unless I franticly work the choke.

    Need to
    1) get the gap/dwell set,
    2) rotor pivoted/fine tuned (not sure how to do this without a timing light of some kind, not even sure where to get or how to use one on this tractor)
    3) governor components checked out,
    4) throttle rod linkage replaced with something that is not made out of flimsy welded rod material that flexes when the throttle lever is moved.

    Thanks again, Upward and onward!

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