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Subject: Used Lift Clyinder

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Kimberly    Posted 03-18-2019 at 11:39:04 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Used Lift Clyinder
  • After cleaning up the used lift cylinder there are some scratches. They aren't deep but they are there. I will include some photos. Tim recommended replacing the cylinder and that is probably wise. I don't have the money in the budget for a new cylinder but I wanted to get the lift working for ploughing the gardens. It could be that this is the cylinder we decided not to use. It has been so long since we went into the lift; Mum was still here at that time; I am thinking it has been 18 years (it always surprises me at just how fast time passes). This is what I remember. We had the old style three ring; we made the trip about 45 miles from here to a tractor supply house to get the new O-ring piston and I thought we got a used cylinder and had it honed. We had a question about scratches after the honing and the guy told us that the scratches would be OK, that the new O-ring would be able to seal unlike the old three ring style. However, I can't remember if we decided to take his word or not. At the time I didn't have knowledge of the N Tractor Club. I think I will wait, pull out the current cylinder and see if we replaced it with a new one or not. If it also has one with scratches then I will see about a replacement. I don't want to delay the repair any longer but $60 plus shipping isn't in the budget, I have already spent more than I could afford this month; not just the tractor but other areas around the household as well.





    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 03-19-2019 at 05:14:29 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Used Lift Clyinder
  • You would be gambling to reuse the old cylinder as others have stated too. Sandblasting the bore -not good. Honing -depends who and how it was done. If not done correctly, out-of-roundness and taper will occur. Was the bore measured using a precision dial bore gage? The cylinder blueprint bore finish spec is 80 Ám. A new cylinder costs $120. Maybe better planning was needed so you could have saved a little each month til affordable rather than attempting to do it all at once? I know this can be difficult to do when on a limited income as emergencies arise that require the extra funds be used for them. This is one job that the old Dr.Demming mantra for manufacturing applies ever so much, "Do The Job Right The First Time". If you haven't already purchased the gasket kit and O-Ring piston, I have some new unused ones I'd let you have at cost.


    Tim Daley(MI)

    Kimberly    Posted 03-19-2019 at 09:00:26 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Used Lift Clyinder
  • Thanks. I don't know why my BIL would sand blast the inside of the cylinder; he should have known better. I don't own a set of calipers; something on the list to get. I have the gasket kit; it was Kumar Bros, USA. I will continue on with the repair. I haven't seen the cylinder in the tractor yet. I did get a new relief valve as the one in the tractor might be original for all I know. If it takes a bit longer to get the tractor back that is OK; Last day of frost here is actually around April 15.

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 03-19-2019 at 10:08:20 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Used Lift Clyinder
  • What's Kumar Bros? No matter. Dial calipers will only get a ballpark measurement. They won't tell you out-of-roundness very well at all, and certainly won't measure taper. Only a dial bore gage will be precise enough. Calipers are good to have regardless and dial bore gages are not something everyone would have anyway unless they have their shop and such. Telescoping gages will work somewhat but you still need a set of them and micrometers. A good local machine/engine rebuild shop should have all those gages. I suspect you are going to go ahead and use the old cylinder anyway after all the advice given, so i would suggest if so, take some medium grit Scotch Brite and smooth out the bore surface a bit. Don't sand or hone anymore. You plan on using the FO-4 Manual don't you?

    Tim Daley(MI)

    Kimberly    Posted 03-19-2019 at 11:32:28 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Kumar Bros USA
  • It is a place that sells after market parts.

    TheOldHokie    Posted 03-19-2019 at 13:05:59 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Kumar Bros USA
  • A great source for Kubota parts at a good price.

    TOH

    Kimberly    Posted 03-19-2019 at 11:06:35 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Used Lift Clyinder
  • My friend that was murdered was a machinist; he had everything. He was my "go to" for such things and I miss having him both as a friend and as someone that could help me. No, I think I know the history of why I have that cylinder. I think that is the original cylinder and the reason it was not used is because of the scratches. Some 18 years ago; I can't remember exactly, work was done on the hydraulic lift. I know the hydraulic pump was rebuilt using a kit from Steiner Tractor. However, I am fuzzy on the cylinder. I know we made a trip to some tractor supply place and got the new 0-ring style piston but I don't know about the cylinder; don't know if a new one was purchased or a used one was put in. That is why I am going to continue with the tear down so I can see the cylinder in the tractor. At that time my brother was up for a visit and helped with the work but I doubt if he remembers what we did even if he would answer the phone. As for the relief valve, I don't remember but the current kit on Steiner Tractor does show one included in the kit so it the kit had one, it was replaced. I did purchase a new relief valve and plan on replacing that. The lift has been harder at picking up implements, especially the disc and then last year I had trouble getting the lift to rise at all. I want to see the cylinder that is in the lift first before ordering a new one; for all I know, the cylinder may have been replaced with a new one, or it may have been replaced with a used one. It could be that the backing washer wasn't used and the O-ring failed.

    TheOldHokie    Posted 03-19-2019 at 07:52:00 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Used Lift Clyinder
  • "The cylinder blueprint bore finish spec is 80 Ám"

    Yikes!! You sure about that? Aside from the fact that is a metric specification it's a rather rough finish.

    I don't have a factory surface finish for the NAA cylinder in my notes but the surface finish for the piston o-ring groove was specified as 100Ra. No units specified but given place, time, application, and magnitude I would assume units to be in uin, e.g. equivalent to Ra = 2.54um.

    Modern practice for reciprocating hydraulic cylinder bores is a surface finish of Ra = 4-20uin (.1-.4um).

    TOH

    Tim Daley(MI)    Posted 03-19-2019 at 09:52:40 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Used Lift Clyinder
  • Ooooppppsss. Yep, I misread my hand notes. The milled mounting surface is shown as 125√, typical. The bore micro-finish is shown as 63√.

    Tim Daley(MI)

    Kimberly    Posted 03-19-2019 at 09:04:49 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Used Lift Clyinder
  • I am use to engine cylinders in which you don't want a smooth polish finish. We always cut the ridge off the top if there was much of one, then hone the cylinder with a cross-hatch pattern. My BIL may have been thinking along the same lines as his work is restoring muscle cars. I wish my friend was still around; he was well trained in all this stuff.

    TheOldHokie    Posted 03-19-2019 at 09:42:08 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Used Lift Clyinder
  • Life is a learning process. Personally I hope to keep on learning for quite some time ;-)

    TOH

    Ozlander    Posted 03-18-2019 at 14:05:50 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Used Lift Clyinder
  • That looks new compared to the one in my NAA.
    I got a new O-ring and honed the cylinder but was afraid of getting it to big. Still had more scratches than yours.
    After 20 years, it still works good.
    It will slowly sink, (maybe 10 minutes) with a very heavy blade on it, but not getting any worst.
    Your tractor, your money. I would use it.

    TheOldHokie    Posted 03-18-2019 at 12:23:45 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Used Lift Clyinder
  • It i impossible to evaluate the condition of your cylinder from a picture. I can see the scratches but I can't measure the bore or evaluate the depth and roughness of the scratches. O-rings really don't like rough surfaces and it appears you hit that with cylinder with some sort of abrasive cleaner. I would be more concerned about that than the scratches so at a minimum polish it well before reusing it.

    If it were mine I'd be inclined to postpone reassembly until I could round up the money for a new one because I simply wouldn't want to have to redo the job anytime soon. But that is something you will have to evaluate for your personal situation. That said, if you did have to go back in you are equipped and experienced so it would not be a horribly demanding or expensive job.

    TOH

    R Geiger    Posted 03-18-2019 at 13:40:08 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Used Lift Clyinder
  • Last year when I reworked the hydraulics on one of my 8n's, I ordered aa new cylinders, piston o ring from this site. I was disappointed to see the finish of the bore, especially since I was using the o ring instead of steel rings. It took a lot of polishing before I felt comfortable with using it. It was not what I was expecting to find.

    Kimberly    Posted 03-18-2019 at 13:05:41 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: Used Lift Clyinder
  • Yes, I took the cylinder to my BIL be cleaned; I only wanted the outside to be done but I failed to mention that and when I picked it up the inside had also been done with the sand blaster. It would probably be wise to figure out how to get a new worked into my budget. And I can take the old one to the scrap yard for a couple of dollars. No, I really don't want to be going back into the lift for some time if at all. If I do this right, I shouldn't have to go back into the lift during the rest of my time on the planet.

    K.LaRue-VA    Posted 03-18-2019 at 15:47:23 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Used Lift Clyinder
  • Yikes! Sand blasting a cylinder bore is bad. The best use for that one might be as a desk accessory. Keep pens and pencils in it.

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