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Subject: earliest tract-o-lite?(pics)

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lonestarjeff    Posted 06-16-2007 at 15:25:23 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • earliest tract-o-lite?(pics)
  • lonestarjeff    Posted 03-20-2006 at 20:14:49 [URL]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • earliest tract-o-lite?(pics)
  • Dan    Posted 06-16-2007 at 15:29:37 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: earliest tract-o-lite?(pics)
  • Jeff - here is the before and after pic of my original worklight I just fixed up. It has the Ford script and Tract-O-Lite stamped in the glass lenas as well. The gasket that goes between the glass and the metal reflector is a thin rubber version and dies out and cracks apart. There was quite a bit of this gasket, and a fair amount of rust rattling around my bulb, but the light bulb still worked when I hooked it up to my 6v battery charger. So, I carefully pried the metal reflector back away from the glass with a pair of channel lock pliers to seperate the glass lend from the metal base. The metal reflector had rust through damage, and the reflective paint was all but gone. I wire wheeled the reflector, coated with phosphoric acid, filled the rust through holes with JB Weld, and repainted with Rustoleum high temp silver after taping the bulb. I could not find a replacement gasket to go between my glass lens and metal reflector base when I put it back together, so I used Permatex high temp gasket maker (that is the red that is showing up around the glass lens in the after pic). I then wire wheeled the bucket and bulb housing, primered, then painted with two coats of Tisco Ford Medium Grey paint. I replaced all the wiring and the switch with the Dennis Carpenter versions. Mine also had the diamond logo stamped lightly by the switch screw closest to the center. I have since obtained another reflector, gasket, and glass lens from Don B at just8ns.com. According to Dennis Carpenter, the dimpled lens like ours is for early 8N tractors, and the ringed lens version was for the later 8Ns.

    Works like a champ.

    Dan

    TJNAA    Posted 08-16-2007 at 22:42:10 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: earliest tract-o-lite?(pics)
  • Dan,

    I'm no authority, but there are those who would dispute Dennis Carpenter and his catalog concerning the years applicable to the dimpled lens vs. the frosted lens. I questioned this very thing for my NAA, as to the originality, and was informed, from what I consider to be a very reliable source, that DC has it backwards. I'm not saying who's right or wrong, only what I've been told.

    Regards,
    TJ

    TJNAA    Posted 08-16-2007 at 23:00:31 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: earliest tract-o-lite?(pics)
  • Oops! I should have read the rest of the post b/4 opening my piehole.

    Sorry.

    Regards,
    TJ

    Tim Daley    Posted 06-16-2007 at 15:28:06 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: earliest tract-o-lite?(pics)
  • Jeff-
    COnsult old posts from DAn as he recently restored a worklight. You have to carefully pry the crimped edges apart fron the glass and housing then you can desolder the bulbe and replace with a new one. Getting the glass back on the housing without breaking it is th etrick. There was a paper gasket between the galss too.

    Now, you realize you have an original CM Hall light don't you? In your pictures, look at the switch and just above the one screw is their logo. It is a diamond with CM Hall Lamp CO. Detroit MI stamped there. Does the switch work? I have come across several identical lights but the switches are always trashed. I've also noticed they all have four retainer clips, not three, and four seems to hold a lot better too. Remember once the rear worklight was introduced, many a farmer added to their machines regardless of year. Original 9N lighting kits suggest using an extra headlight for the worklight or one headlight in front and one in back. Is that an ammeter tore apart there too?

    Tim Daley (MI)
    *8NI55I3*

    don b    Posted 06-16-2007 at 15:42:10 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: earliest tract-o-lite?(pics)
  • Tim....not all implement lights have the logo stamped on them.I have an 8n nos-oem implement light that does not have the logo.I don't know who made them at Ford,but I think the C.M.Hall stamped ones were for Ferguson.Have you any more info on these lights. don b

    Tim Daley    Posted 06-16-2007 at 15:42:46 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: earliest tract-o-lite?(pics)
  • Hi Don-
    Yes, I knew they all did not have the stamped logo but thought they just stopped at some point. I had one at one time and did not see any differences in the construction except for the logo missing. Is it possible Hall made them all and just did not stamp the Fergusons? Or, was there another manufacturer after Hall? I have seen more stamped and only the one un-stamped, but I know they are out there. I tried to Google C.M. Hall and Tract-O-Lite early this morning but di dnot get any useful information-mostly ebay ads. Flat ROck, Michigan is down near Monroe by our good friend Marv Baumann's area-right next door. I posed these questions to Mr. Brock when I interviewed him but he only said there were several suppliers of the lights, no specifics, other than GE suppied the very first sealed beam light. The search continues...

    Tim Daley (MI)
    *8NI55I3*

    Phil Warner    Posted 08-04-2007 at 22:07:04 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: earliest tract-o-lite?(pics)
  • Please excuse the off subject inquiry, but I am wondering if Tim Daley on this site is the same Gentlemen with whom I corresponded about old tools and the Moore Company when I still worked for the Moore Company's successors a few years back. If so, hello again Tim, and give me a ping at philwarner@centurytel.net.

    don b    Posted 06-16-2007 at 15:43:31 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: earliest tract-o-lite?(pics)
  • Tim.....since we now know Ford made the TOL headlights,I will have to assume they also made the implement light also.It does say TOL on the lens.Still checking on this. don b

    Randy    Posted 06-16-2007 at 15:44:01 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: earliest tract-o-lite?(pics)
  • Don, in response to your question on what do I find on 8N-15513 and -15514, the door is specified to be made from .026 inch brass, was drawn in 2/49. In the border of the drawing written in tiny letters upside down is HALL. Maybe this means something, maybe not. Sometimes engineers jot things down in the strangest places (me included). No plating, just paint.

    The 8n-15514 is interesting. It was drawn in 8/48 and released in 9/48. The part number 1H-13465-A was added in 4/51. This is a trade number 1133 6 Volt 32 candle power bulb. The reflector is made of .025 brass and silver plated, not painted and does not have a Ford number. This is pretty firm proof to me that the whole thing was purchased assembled. Soldering electrical parts was not, of course, Ford's specialty. The gasket is RN-415-PB white sulphur-free rubber, thickness is not dimensioned, but it looks to be at least .060 thick.

    The lens is described, as the last revision of original drawing left it in 7/53, as quote-crystal lens, cover entire inside surface of lens with .06 dia. hemispherical prisms.-unquote. The outer surface is not described other than a note pointing to it saying quote-vendor's identification-unquote. The 12 volt version FDF-15514-A was added to same print 4/15/54. There is no indication of supplier except it is clear that several were permitted, because of note that became the standard note Ford Tractor used on many drawings: quote-NOTE engineering approval of samples from each supplier is reqd prior to authorization of part production-unquote. Another note specifies quote-manufacturer trade mark and bulb trade no. to be indicated. --addition of voltage and power rating optional-unquote.

    don b    Posted 06-16-2007 at 15:44:30 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: earliest tract-o-lite?(pics)
  • Thanks Randy.......yes I believe you are correct on the light being vendor supplied,or at least after 1951.Maybe this is why we see the Hall logo on some lights and not on others.The part number 1H 13465...I believe the "1H " could be for Hall.Maybe Hall started making them in 1951.
    I have an original FDF-15514-A[dimpled lens],but didn't realize it was 12 volt.I also have a pic of 8n15514 and original box and it's dimpled also.SO.....what are we missing,since I'm reading the dimples came out 7-53. don b

    Randy    Posted 06-16-2007 at 15:44:57 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: earliest tract-o-lite?(pics)
  • About the 1H part number prefix, I thought that Ford required Tractor to pass any parts through their Parts Control group if they could possibly already have such things, or at least to exercise some central standardization on the numbers. Seems like a six volt 32 cp single contact bayonet base bulb like this would be something they already used or would use, so I am guessing this was decided by them.

    The FDF numbers are an entirely different prefix, and I don't know where that came from, but the six volt bulb FDF-13465-A (it is trade number 1143) that was used to make up the 12v assembly uses the same prefix that the 12v assembly FDF-15514-A does.I don't know that much about how all the unusual prefixes came about except, in earlier days, each design location had some numbering systems of their own: 967 and 960, for example, came from Dagenham.

    don b    Posted 06-16-2007 at 15:45:16 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: earliest tract-o-lite?(pics)
  • Randy.....all my thoughts are just speculation.You know more about this stuff than I ever will.
    1H 13465....There is a B-13465 [single] [#1129]and 11A 13465 [double] [#1154] which is for taillights[about 4 cp]I don't know of anything Ford had in 1949 that would use a 32 cp bulb.I think the CM HALL headlights used a 32 cp bulb,[The part number for them was 9n 13007] and I would guess on early cars and trucks before they came out with sealbeams.However,what we would like to know is which lens were used and which years.Ford advertised a "frosted lens" in 50-51.I don't think they were referring to the dimple lens.We also know the dimple lens was used for the later tractors.I guess what's throwing me off is the 8n 15514 with dimple lens.We know Hall made implement lights,and I suspect from Fords prints.The note on the prints say to id by the vendor,and I would suspect that is why the Hall logo is on some,but not all, of the lights I have seen.Can you determine when the note was added to the print?Is there anything about Ford making the lights at first and then purchasing from outside later.Keep diging and thanks for your help. don b



    Randy    Posted 06-16-2007 at 15:45:37 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: earliest tract-o-lite?(pics)
  • The Ford prefix system before the post-war system was to prefix the parts with the model number of vehicle the part is released for: B is obviously from the 1932 B, and 11A is from the 1941 model. The 9N-13007 32 cp bulb was trade number 1007 and originally released 9/18/39.



    lonestarjeff    Posted 06-16-2007 at 15:37:38 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: earliest tract-o-lite?(pics)
  • Hey Tim:

    I sure hope that bulb works! I do not look forward to trying to uncrimp & re-crimp that rim.

    Looked a little closer at the housing & there it was, the lightly stamped diamond logo. The switch feels mechanically sound, but I haven't tested it electrically.

    Yes, the old ammeter is sitting on the work table, but it seems to be a goner. Water got into it a long time ago & the bottom third of the face turned to powder. The old oil pressure guage is in much better shape.

    Jeff

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    lonestarjeff    Posted 06-16-2007 at 15:38:26 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: earliest tract-o-lite?(pics)
  • Hey Dan:

    Your ammeter & worklite both turned out great. I don't see where the ammeter needs any more work.

    One thing about the worklite lense, I think you'll find Dennis Carpenter has the chronology backwards, at least according to the John Smith site. He has the ringed lenses on the early lights & the dimpled lense later.

    Jeff



    Dan    Posted 06-16-2007 at 15:39:02 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: earliest tract-o-lite?(pics)
  • I would be inclined to agree with you, as I thought it was backwards as well when I saw it. However; in talking with Don B a few days ago on this subject, he told me Dennis got his info from him. I know Don B knows his stuff and would not want to try to second guess his historical knowledge if you know what I mean :-)

    Dan

    don b    Posted 06-16-2007 at 15:41:22 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: earliest tract-o-lite?(pics)
  • Dan.....I would not say John Smith is wrong.He and I have discussed this for years.He just hasn't convinced me 100% that he is correct.We both agree that later lights had the dimples.[ie: FDF 15514,]but I have also seen the dimple lens on the 8n15514.I have asked Randy to see what he can dig up on all the lights.It really doesn't matter who is right or wrong,I would just like to find out for sure to set the history straight.
    Now.....let's open up a discussion on 48-49 headlights.The more I dig,the more I'm inclined to believe the Ford headlights were used on the 48 and 49 8ns.I think they went to the Tract-O-Lites when they came out with the "implement light"[dimpled or 8 rings]in 1949.I base this on my prints and some folks tractors,but this is still just speculation,no real proof.We need lots of feed back before we decide "that's the way it was back when".Help please. don b

    lonestarjeff    Posted 06-16-2007 at 15:39:46 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: earliest tract-o-lite?(pics)
  • Hey Dan:

    I know what you mean, I guess I'll keep one of each & change'em out depending on who's coming over for a beer(grin).

    Jeff

    Dan    Posted 06-16-2007 at 15:40:21 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: earliest tract-o-lite?(pics)
  • We must think alike, I just snagged a ringed version from Don B the other day for the same reason :-)

    Dan

    lonestarjeff    Posted 06-16-2007 at 15:27:19 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Well.......never mind, duh.
  • Should have consulted Smith's site before I posted. I've got this deal backwards. Looks like my ringed worklight is correct for the '48 model. The dimples came in '51.

    Jeff

    Jerry TN    Posted 06-16-2007 at 15:33:45 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Well.......never mind, duh.
  • I am confused, but I do have 2 1950 8Ns and both have the dimpled lights. One of which was my dads and has been in the family for 35+ years. Of course the lights could have been replaced before my time. I was always under the impression the dimpled lights came first. I love these type of issues and how someone usualy comes up with proof to resolve it.

    lonestarjeff    Posted 06-16-2007 at 15:34:20 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Well.......never mind, duh.
  • Yeah, I'll be interested to see if this gets nailed down.

    Jeff

    don b    Posted 06-16-2007 at 15:34:59 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Well.......never mind, duh.
  • Jeff...you did see my post where I nailed it down? don b

    lonestarjeff    Posted 06-16-2007 at 15:35:28 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Well.......never mind, duh.
  • Don...I sure did. I appreciate you staying after it. This also helps explain why my early 8N had an off-brand(Grote)fixed, unswitched rear worklight from the dealer. It had the unmarked(Ford)headlights, but no Taurus tail light. The only switch was lower left on the dash, the pull-type.

    Have you been able to find any more info on the '48-'49 headlights?

    Jeff

    don b    Posted 06-16-2007 at 15:35:49 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: Well.......never mind, duh.
  • Jeff....I sorta run into a dead end on the 48-49 lights.I will keep digging until I find the answer.Bunches of info....just have to sort it out and be able to prove it.Thanks for all your help. don b



    lonestarjeff    Posted 06-16-2007 at 15:26:24 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: earliest tract-o-lite?(pics)
  • After posting this I saw a listing on ebay for the same light exactly. The seller said it came off a 600, so now I don't know what to think.

    Jeff



    Jim.UT    Posted 06-16-2007 at 15:32:06 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: earliest tract-o-lite?(pics)
  • Just because someone took it off a 600 doesn't mean that's where it was originally installed. I have a taillight on my 850 that was never intended to be there, but it is a genuine Ford item.

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    It is actually off a x01 series Ford. But I found that if I positioned it out there on the end of my fender, the curve of the mounting base was perfect and the taillight lens would be vertical. So I drilled three holes in my original fender (horrors!) and bolted on. It works for me. The third hole is for the wire.

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    Now if my good old 850 ever gets parted out, someone will sell that taillight and say it came off an 850, which would be an accurate statement, but it wouldn't prove it ever belonged there.

    lonestarjeff    Posted 06-16-2007 at 15:32:43 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: earliest tract-o-lite?(pics)
  • Looks like it belongs there!

    I know what you mean, we tend to use what works where & when we need it. When the guy mentioned it came off a 600 I just assumed it was a "transplant". Now I'm not sure. Maybe somebody out there has a service bulletin or something.

    Jeff

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