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frank    Posted 05-03-2022 at 17:43:24 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • donnahoo
  • Folks, I need help. My 1952 8N started dieing on me when the front of the tractor is higher than the rear, as in going uphill or backing downhill. This happens with no load on the tractor.
    Backing down a hill with the clutch pushed in and PTO disengaged and it stalls.
    I tried cleaning my carb. and a new float seat, needle, and wire to tie the needle to the float. This did not help.
    So, I ordered a new aftermarket carb. Guess what? It does the same thing.
    I ordered a replacement for that carb., and......same thing.
    The tractor runs perfect on level ground.
    The new carb. lets it idle down further than ever before.
    The main jet was adjusted to the highest rev when I 1st installed it. I tried to adjust it, but the original settings were where the tractor ran best.
    I have drained the tank, removed the sediment bowl, and cleaned it from top to bottom. I have good flow.
    I checked and the flow coming out of the float bowl drain is over 4 oz. per minute.
    And, I even measured it right after it died on me on a hill. The bowl was full of gas and the flow measured the same.
    The gas tank has 5 fresh gallons of 90 octane, non-ethanol gas.
    So, again. The tractor runs fine and will lift my 5' box blade without stumbling, as long as it is on level ground.
    The second I get on an incline with the front of the tractor higher than the back, it either dies on me, or the governor tries to keep it going and it surges until I get it back on simi-level ground. Then it purrs like a kitten.
    I am at a loss.
    Any and all help is appreciated.
    Thank you,
    Frank

    continentalsey    Posted 05-13-2022 at 00:18:23 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: donnahoo
  • The nature of the sounds of a working tractor. Usually, when the tractor is working, a monotonous dull sound comes from the mechanisms. When malfunctions occur, a wide variety of sounds arise, which, with sufficient attention of the tractor driver, can be easily and timely detected by him. In case of extraneous sounds, the tractor should be stopped immediately and find out the cause of their occurrence. Extraneous knocks in the engine are particularly dangerous. If they are detected, the engine must be turned off and start working only after the detection and troubleshooting. You can follow the new models with https://www.heming-engineering.co.uk/tractors-and-machinery/siromer-small-tractors.

    JMOR    Posted 05-05-2022 at 16:39:07 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: donnahoo
  • Can't determine from this thread if problem has been solved or not, but if not, bend float arms such that the same 0.25 inch clearance exist for the full length of float, NOT just at one end.

    Frank    Posted 05-06-2022 at 17:29:07 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: donnahoo
  • JMOR, the issue has been resolved. The orig. float was set at exactly 1/4 inch from stem to stern. For this aftermarket carb. that is not sufficient. Every time I would go up a hill, it would just die. That was because the float bowl was nearly full and when at an angle, it would just float up, stop the flow of gas, then stall. So, I didn't want to mangle the float too much, so I just bent it in a downward position. So far, it is working fine. I'll even it out if it gives me problems. Thanks for the info. Frank

    Frank    Posted 05-04-2022 at 17:02:31 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: donnahoo
  • Whoo-hoo!!!!!
    I think I figured this one out. 1st off, I did initially have an issue with the tractor running on hills. Not sure why it was doing that this year......maybe there was some debris in one of the jets and I cleaned the carb. and got it out. I checked the float level, made a slight adjustment to where the float was pretty much level, sitting at 1/4th an inch from the gasket. So, I reinstalled it, and it was still dying on hills. From this point on, was where the frustration really began. So, swapping the floats from my orig. Marvel carb. didn't help, nor did the new needle and jet with wire to tie it to the float. After dinking around with it for a couple of days, on and off, I decided to get the el-cheapo $30 carb from ebay. And, as I said, it did the same thing right out of the box. So after all of the reading and research I have done, I took Bruce's advice and got a barb and some clear tubing to plug into the carb. bowl drain, so I could check for level when it stalled on a hill. Well, the idea that came to me this morning (or was it last night? It's all running together now.) of lowering the float level so that it would drop further as the fuel was consumed. I checked it (back to the Tractor Supply 6-7 yr. old carb.) again and it was still level and at 1/4th inch from the gasket. So, I increased the distance from 1/4th inch level floats, to 1/4th inch on the float side closest to the pivot point where the needle is. This made it almost 1/2 inch on the outside end of the float. Put it back together, tweaked it as best I could, then backed down from the barn to the fairly steep hill. It kept on running. I drove it around for a while, testing it on several hills and no stalls! I even let the tractor sit on a steep hill with the pto on, for 20 to 30 minutes. No stall! As both the Tractor Supply and the cheap-o ebay carb come with no directions or any documentation at all, I can only surmise that those float levels need to be set so that they will drop a little further as the gas is used. The 1/4th inch measurement from the marvel carb. is not necessarily correct for these aftermarket carbs., although they look identical to the marvel. My guess is the cheap Chinese carbs. just aren't built to precise specs., and each one may be a little different. Let this be a learning experience for other's that may have bought one of these cheap carbs. I put in the time. Someone else (I hope) will benefit from my misery! If it happens to start crapping out on me again, I will post.
    I thank you guys for the free help that you have given me and am so glad that these forums are available to share experiences.
    Thanks again, Frank

    frank    Posted 05-03-2022 at 17:45:50 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: donnahoo
  • Just another note.
    I have tried to correct this with the gas cap tight and loose.
    Makes no difference.

    HCooke    Posted 05-03-2022 at 19:02:30 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: donnahoo
  • I use E10 in my Ns. They run great on hills!

    Seriously, check the fuel flow thru the carb when on an incline and it bogs down. You could have a float that is binding.

    Also you mention "new" carb. Almost no one on this forum recommends "new" carbs.

    Frank    Posted 05-04-2022 at 12:39:18 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [Email]  
  • Re: donnahoo
  • Ok, so here's the whole story.
    My tractor started backfiring about 6-7 years ago.
    No matter how well I cleaned it, I couldn't get it to deliver enough gas to keep it brom backfiring/popping.
    So, I found a Tractor Supply new carb. for $100, and I bought it.
    Installed it, worked great, and have been using it since.
    So, this year the incline issue started.
    My 1st instinct was to check the float for sticking.
    I couldn't find any places that were "rubbing", but installed the original, still good float from the orig. marvel carb.
    Same issue with the incline.
    Set float 1/4 inch from gasket as recommended.
    After messing with that for a couple of days, I saw the cheapo carbs on ebay.
    So, I took a chance and got one.
    After installing the carb., the tractor ran better than ever for 30 minutes.......on a level surface.
    Then I back it out of my barn, only to have it stall out on the hill in front of my barn.
    So, since the carb. was new, and under return warranty, I sent it back without opening it up. (I didn't want to void the warranty.)
    Ordered and received a new, identical carb, installed it, and same issue.
    I read extensively on tractor/8N forums about the fuel flow and the need to check it right when it stalled.
    I did, and I got apx. 5 oz. per minute, which I have read is sufficient for this tractor.
    I ended up opening one of the new carbs, and they are almost exactly the same as the orig., in construction.
    So, when I ordered the new carb., I also ordered one of the vitron needle with seat and wire to secure it to the floats. This means the float needle should not be sticking as the fuel is consumed.
    That didn't work either.
    Then last night around 9:30 (been messing with this all day), I decided to remove the screen tube that connects to the 90 deg. elbow, just to try to eliminate some things.
    I had removed all screens and cleaned before (only some small amount of rust in the sediment bowl. None in the screens themselves. clean,clean,clean), but was at a loss as what to do next.
    I checked the fuel flow and from the drain hole in the carb. bowl, I got apx 9 oz. in one minute.
    So, I button it up and what do you know, it kept running on a steep hill!
    Alright, so I think I have it fixed.
    I was putting my tools away, and decided to try it one more time to make sure it was still working.
    Nope. stalled on the same location it was running fine on before.
    I meant to mention this, but I had put the older TS carb. back on when running without the screen.
    So, back to square one.
    Today, I had a thought.
    Maybe I should increase the distance for the float adjustment to, say 1/2 inch.
    I am wondering if when on an incline, the float comes up on an incline as the fuel is angled in the carb., thereby cutting off the gas flow into the carb. and then finally the float drops just seconds after it stalls.
    I don't know where I will go from there.
    Thank you so much for your reply.
    Someone has run into this before, and if I throw it out there, maybe someone will have the solution.
    But, aftermarket or not, after 3 carbs., you would think one of them would have worked.....
    Thank you again!

    Bruce(OR)    Posted 05-04-2022 at 00:07:10 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: donnahoo
  • Remove the drain plug on the bottom of the new carb.
    Install a barb with clear open ended hose on bottom.
    Hold the hose up towards the gas tank.
    Turn on the gas flow.
    Level inside the hose will show you the level inside the carb.
    It should be very close to the center line of the carb.
    Too low needs adjustment.
    Too high and the gas should be flowing out the carb throat.

    frank    Posted 05-04-2022 at 12:51:52 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: donnahoo
  • Thanks, Bruce.
    I have read and seen pictures of doing this, and that will be my next step.
    Since it means a trip to the hardware store, I will try increasing the float adjustment to something between 1/4 inch and 1/2 inch.
    See my follow up to the other reply to my post.
    Thanks, and if float adjustment does not cure my ills, I will definitely get some clear tubing and a barb fiting to connect to the drain hole in the float bowl, to see where the level is when the tractor stalls.
    Funny. Man is pretty inventive. This is a story about using clear hose to check for level.
    I was building a beach cabin in the country of Panama, on a remote island with no roads, stores, etc.
    We went to 2 islands over and bought about 75 feet of clear tubing.
    We filled the tubing with water, and used that to level the footings on the foundation.
    So, thanks for the tip and I return your help with a story.
    Hopefully, I can relate a good ending to this, what should have been a simple fix but has turned into a nightmare.
    Thank you, sir.
    Frank

    Jack - Iowa    Posted 05-05-2022 at 07:07:06 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: donnahoo
  • Forget that 1/2 inch!

    Spedifications vary dependent om the source but you shp\ould set it between .250 and .290

    One member, who will rebuild a carb for others, uses a 9/32 drill bit as a guage.


    Bruce(OR)    Posted 05-04-2022 at 16:03:46 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: donnahoo
  • Isle Grande?
    Panama?
    My younger days in Ft Davis and Ft Clayton.
    Poor man's Hawaii, only a lot better.

    Frank    Posted 05-04-2022 at 17:45:55 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: donnahoo
  • No, my place was on the Caribbean side. Bocas del Toro on Isla Colon was the closest real town to our island. My property was on Bastimentos, 2 islands away from Bocas. It was one hell of an adventure. I bought the 1/2 acre from an old hippie that had purchased a few hectares. I had 100 ft of Caribbean front, in a protected bay. My own 60 ft. dock, where I kept my solar panels. When we 1st went in 2000, there was only one fiberglass boat in the whole area. They used cayucos, or basically hollowed out logs with a 15 HP motor. We had to bring all of the materials in by these boats, except when I bought lumber from Isla Popa, and they had a 7 ft. wide hollowed out log boat that would haul tons of wood. But, we had to bring all of our sand and gravel from Bocas to our place. I had to buy bulk sand and gravel. They would deliver it close to the wharf in Bocas. Then I would buy hundreds of flour sacks. 5 shovels of sand to a sack=apx. 100 lbs. The log boats would only haul about 36 bags without capsizing while crossing the channel. On more than one occasion, we hit rough seas and had to throw bags of sand and gravel overboard, lest we go down to the briney depths. Took literally hundreds of sacks to build the foundation. It was just basically a cabin, 30 ft. from the high tide. We had a coral head just 50 ft. off my dock. I loved it, although it was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life. The wood we used to build the house was like mahogany. The 12' nispeara (sp) posts the house was on, took 4 men to lift them. The wood was so heavy, it would sink if you threw a piece in the water. It was also so hard, we had to pre-drill holes to drive the cheap, soft nails available down there. Elsewise, they would just bend like hitting a soda straw. Most of the siding and flooring was of Conufiestala (sp), which was green when we got it. Our waterfront was very shallow, and a boat loaded with wood, would have to stop about 50 ft. from the shore as it would drag bottom. The 18' rafters weighed about 125 lbs. each. We dropped many in the water carrying them to shore, where we stacked the wood, only to have to pass the boards up 12' where we made another stack, until we installed it. As I said, I loved it. I brought a couple of 100 watt solar panels from the USA, and we were in high heaven when we had electric lights, and could run a small fan over our bed. We had to catch our water and built a tower behind the house to hold the water tank. But.....the termites got to it one year, and we moved it to the ground before it collapsed and wrecked my house. Then, we had to use an RV type water pump to pressurize the water since we no longer had the help from gravity. Ok, so this is a long story. I guess you can tell I really liked it there. We would go down there for 2 months a year from 2001 til 2016. In 2013, we had a very bad year. I was diagnosed with colon cancer and they gutted me, but got it all. My wife had 3 major surgeries of the female type. And the worst thing was my son, Bill, killed himself. He was a vet. and had been deployed overseas for 2 years. when he got out, he was all messed up in the head. He made it from discharge on 2005 until 2013. I found him at his house, where he had hung himself. We didn't have a clue he was in that bad of condition, and the V.A. was handling his medical needs. So, we fell $100,000 in the hole and I ran out of 0% intrest xfers with my charge cards, and had to sell our place in Panama to pay these bills. But, I turned a $30,000 fun vacation house and land ($13k for land, $17k to build the house) into a $195k sale. Of course, that price didn't include all of the things like solar, gas refrigerator, bed, household stuff.....you get the idea. I would do it again (I'm 65 now), if given the $$ and time. I absolutely loved it.
    So, you were in Panama, too? Were you there for the invasion to get ol' pineapple face out of office? He was a corrupt as they come, and a lot hadn't changed when I 1st went down there. I had to bribe the mayor of Bocas to sell me sand that they were mining (illegally) from some very big beaches. I got "gringo'd" many a time, and I decided that the national sport of Panama was "Fleecing the Gringo's). Ha! But, by the time we left, everything had changed. New boats. Water taxis, real hardware stores, grocery stores, everything....except the heat!

    Bruce(OR)    Posted 05-05-2022 at 12:33:03 [URL] [DELETE]        [Reply] [No Email]  
  • Re: donnahoo
  • Trujillo and Noriega were both installed by CIA. Trujillo had enough sense to leave when he was getting to be a PITA. He took all the money and ran off, never to be heard from again. Rumored to have gone to neutral Switzerland. Noriega thought he was king sh(t on t9rd island! He was totally clueless about having to vacate the position when told to do so.

    Jimmy Carter gave away the canal and Bill Clinton had the option to negate that decision in 1999. Bill Clinton did not stop it and now the Chinese have moved in and gained a foothold in our back yard.

    Sorry to read about your son. I was playing army when the Sandnistas (?) were making trouble and got deployed to Honduras, from Panama, as a show of strength.
    Part of the Panamanian treaty was that Panama could not be used as a staging area to invade surrounding countries in the area.

    I was there when Grenada happened and felt a bit sorry for the stateside troops deployed and the lack of not being acclimated to the heat.

    Panama, Wait-a-minit vines, Howler Monkeys, Caiman, Army ants, Ant trees were fun, Elephant grass, Blue butterflies and the large spiders that made the nylon yellow webs. Ever see a 2' grass hopper? I had one of those land on my shoulder once.
    Knowing that everything in that country would bite you, I screamed like a girl.
    A 2 foot grass hopper was only seen in the movies. Not landing on you.

    Most of the Panamanians were crying in their soup when the US pulled out and took all the green backs away. Go back? 65 for me is the July after this one coming up.

    I have found I have the finances to do so but the body maybe not so much.
    Current wife does not like heat and it looks like I will be growing moss in the future years. I did a round with germ cell cancer and lost a kidney in the process of everything else. Massive tumor around the kidney, going up to the liver and wrapped around the descending aorta. One surgeon told me he wasn't going to chop on me 'cuz I would bleed out on his table so he sent me to another surgeon. She spent 11-1/2 hours carving me out. That was after 4 rounds of Chemo. The second one about did me in.
    I spent some of that time being in the hosp due to becoming neutropenic (SP?)
    At the same time I started losing my hair and began to pull out some of it when the wife came to visit one morning.

    I told her I got her a chinchilla!

    She looked at it and couldn't figure it out.
    I asked her if she wanted a bigger one and then proceeded to pull out more hair.
    Her reaction was somewhere between shock, horror and amusement.
    I was amused.
    This was fun.
    For me.

    She finally made me throw in the trash can but I had to ask her if she wanted another one anyway.

    Gotta get going, catch you later!
    Bruce





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