Subject: 8N Red belly engine paint
To be technically correct the engine should be painted with higher rated temperature engine paint rather than general purpose paint,but not the high temperature paint as used on exhaust pipes and manifolds.
Have read most of the archives on the subject of 8N red paint and have found no consideration addressing engine paint.
Have also read N tractor club active member’s,“cleaning and paintings tips” by K.LaRue-VA on 9N/8N’s, posted on his website.
If the tractor is a show horse and the engine is not ever run much, suppose it is not important to use higher temperature rated paint on the engine.
However, if the tractor is used as a work horse, where the engine runs for hours at a time, the engine should be painted with engine type paint to be technically correct.
The engine surface area is a large portion of the red belly undercarriage.
Being new to 8N ownership ,set out to research the different spray paint offerings in the market place that are formulated for engines that color match the 8N red colored paint.
My 1949 8N tractor has not ever been repainted and is all original paint.
The purpose of this posting on the forum is to share the results of the research project with other members. Many of the discussions in the archives are now outdated, since many paints have been discontinued, replaced and new products offered in the market place because of demand of the product, new technology and EPA VOC requirements.
What I found was a large selection of red colored general purpose spray paint, but a limited section of red colored engine paint.
Limited the study to spray can paint with out having to invest in air operated spray apparatus and breathing equipment.
There is much discussion in the archives on the correct original color of the red belly undercarriage.
Since my tractor has only original paint, 1949 8N, performed a spectrum color analysis of several areas on the tractor, including the tool box, oil filler tube and air cleaner, as many other have done.
The areas containing the original heavy metal based paint were sanded with 280 grit sandpaper to remove any oxidation. The original lead based paint did not have any issues with engine temperatures.
The color is an orange red on all areas tested.
The original color is 60% red and 40% yellow based on spectrum analysis.
However, there are three small areas that have an overspray of a different color. The color is very similar to International Harvestor (IH) red. The IH colored areas are less than 1 square inch and are located behind the governor on the engine block, the engine side of the oil filler tube and the engine side of the generator.
Found a U-Tube video of Harold L. Brock taking about how the 8N color was decided.
The design team wanted IH red and Harold L. Brock wanted the color of his wife’s dress.
Believe there were two colors used by Ford on the 8N tractors based on the original paint applied to my 8N. There is another post, dated July 2006 by Kelly Jewell that agrees that there were two different red colors used by Ford Tractor division.
It looks like the factory worker started to paint with IH red and then switched to orange red color before the IH paint cured ,because the IH red and orange red are applied as one coat.
There is no primer used, only one coat of original paint.
Found a film and posted on U-Tube made by Ford Dearborn tractor division that showed a factory worker painting the 8N , but the film was in black and white. Ford did not paint the parts individually like Harley Davidson does on the motorcycles. The Tractor undercarriage was painted with the tractor fully assembled less the hood and seat. However, the tool box may have been painted separately.
Also, Found a film produced by Ford Dearborn tractor division on U-Tube titled, “The New Ford Tractor, 1953”. The Jubilee shown in this film was definitely orange –red in color.
True red is a primary color. The Crayola crayon color red is true red. Crayola also offers, orange red, red orange, true orange, scarlet red of the total 133 colors offered. If wanting to know what true red color looks like , obtain a Crayola red crayon.
On the color wheel , true orange is 50% red and 50% yellow.
Scarlet red is a defined color according to Wikipedia and is one quarter of the way between red and orange.
Vermilion red is also a defined color and is similar to scarlet, but slightly more orange than scarlet red.
Doing the calculations vermillion red is therefore, 63% red and 37% yellow, which is very close to the spectrum make up of the original orange red on my 8N.
According to the forum achieves most people like the “Rustoleum Sunrise red “color for the undercarriage, since the vermilion is too orange for most people’s taste and too much like the Allis Chambers orange.
Also did some research on the Allis Chambers orange. There were three different shades of orange used on AC tractors. The last orange used between 1973 and 1984 is called new AC orange and all the AC paint products on the market match this color. Spectrum analysis of three different spray can paint products from three different manufacturers of the new AC orange shows 70% red and 30% yellow.
The test results prove that AC orange is more red than vermilion red, but still called orange rather than red, …go figure. Yes ,the AC orange is more red than the original 8N orange red .
Evaluated 13 different general purpose red color spray can paint products and 4 different red colored spray can engine paint products. A color spectrum analysis was performed on each product based on a sample made on a 1”X 1 X 3/16” aluminum metal.
The products from larger manufacturers , Rustolem, Valspar, Krylon were evaluated. Also included the product suppled by TSC manufactured by Yenkin-Majestic. The products from these manufacturers were selected because the products are easy to find in the retail space.
The engine paint evaluated included, (1)Krylon/VHT-ford red, (2)Krylon/Duplicolor-red, (3)Krylon/Duplicolor-ford red, (4)Rustoleum- ford red.
Other current production engine paints were identified, but not evaluated ,since unable to locate in the market space. These products include (5)Krylon-industrial, ford red, (6)Rustoleum-universal red, (7)Krylon/VHT- universal bright red, (8) Valspar/plastikote-ford red, (9) Valspar/plastikote-universal red, (9)Krylon/VHT brake caliper paint-real red, is easy to locate and this paint will work for engine paint, since it rated for 1200F.
All four major paint manufacturers ( Krylon-duplicolor, Rustoleum, Valspar/plastikote,Krylon-VHT),produce engine spray paint in both “ford red” and “basic red” colors. However , the colors from the manufactures are not identical with the same paint color name.
The general purpose red paints evaluated include (1) Rustoleum/stops rust-sunrise red(2) Rustoleum-/stops rust- regal red,(3) Rustoleum/stops rust-cherry red,(4)Rustoleum/acrylic-red,(5)Rustoleum/automotive-cherry red,(6)Rustoleum/painters touch-apple red,(7)Rustoleum/farm equipment-international harvestor red,(8) Valspar/tractor & implement, ford red,(9) Krylon/rust protector-classic red,(10) Krylon/indoor-outdoor-banner red,(11)Krylon/Dupli-color-cherry red,(12) Krylon/Dupli-color/perfect match touch up-bright red(13) Yenkin-majestic/tractor Supply Company-ford red.
The current production general purpose red paints were identified , but not evaluated include, (14) Krylon/farm & implement- IH red(15) Yenkin-majestic- IH red,(16) Rustoleum/farm equipment-internation red.
Note, the large paint manufacturers such as Krylon, Valspar and Rustoleum have many divisions as a result of mergers and acquitions.
The best quality paint of the group is Rustoleum/automotive. This paint has a very fast dry to touch time, produces a smooth finish and requires no rust preventative primer, since it seals rust from carbon steel . Suspect it would be a good color match to Krylon/VHT-universal bright red, but unable to locate this product.
The worst paint is Yenkin-Majestic supplied exclusively through Tractor Supply. This paint has very long dry to touch time at 10 hours, which gives time to pick up lots of air born material. The paint overall has a very slow curing time and may not cure at all in states like Washington and Oregon. However, the paint produces a very durable high gloss finish. Painted a section of sheet metal with this paint and it took two months to cure.
Fast dry to touch time is an important factor for air dry spray paint, since air born material can easily ruin the paint job.
Did not evaluate the Vermillion red sold by “Just 8N”, since does not make sense to ground ship one can of paint 3000 miles.
The red colors range from orange red(yellow end)) to violet red(blue end).
All paints were evaluated for color content using a color spectrum analyzer.
Some believe the Sunrise red more closely matches the original color. I disagree.
However, do prefer the Rustoleum Sunrise red color over all the other red colors, as other do.
Rustoleum Sunrise Red is , 14% red, 62% violet, 24% yellow, based on spectrum analysis. It is on the violet side of true red. It is the most inexpensive red spray paint on the market of all the samples evaluated and can be purchased at Walmart in the bonus oversize 15 OZ can at discount price.
All other spray paints are supplied in the standard 12 OZ cans.
The engine paint that best matches Rustoleum sunrise red is Krylon/VHT, Sp 152 ,ford red.
Krylon.VHT, ford red is comprised of 48% red and 52% violet based on spectrum analaysis.
There is no yellow tint in this paint, which means it has no orange content.
Unable to detect visually any difference in color between Rustoleum Sunrise red and VHT ford red.
Tested all samples of engine paint at 300F,400F,500F temperatures in the gas oven for 1 hour.
All the engine paints indicated on the label , the paint is good up to 500F.
All samples turned brown at 500F, not red brown, but brown-brown.
There was no color change at 300F for all four engine paints.
There was a very slight color change at 400F for the two Krylon Duplicolor engine paints.
Krylon/VHT/engine and Rustoleum engine paints both show no color change at 400F.
The Krylon/duplicolor/engine was the worst of the three brands with slowest drying time and the greatest change of color at 400F.
Valspar/plastikote/engine was not included in the sample group.
New Krylon Product
The new product by Krylon, “Krylon/rust protector-classic red” is superior to the Rustolem-stops rust-sunrise red. First of all ,the color is identical to sunrise red. The paint has only 8 minutes dry to touch time compared to 4 hours for Rustoleum, has a superior smooth finish to Rustoleum stops rust and also seals carbon steel rust and requires no antirust primer. There is only one red color, but again it is identical in color to the Rustoleum –sunrise red. Overall cure time is only 8 hours at 50% humidity compared to Rustoleum/stops rust brand, which could take a week or more.
All Rustoleum stops rust products tested have a wrinkle and orange peel issue, the automotive and acrylic enamel have a nice smooth finish.
Summary
If sunrise red is the desired color the best combination is Krylon/rust protector-classic red for all the red belly surfaces , except the engine surfaces and Krylon/VHT –ford red for the high temperature engine surfaces, makes the best combination. There is no visual difference in color between Krylon/rust protector-classic red and Krylon/VHT/engine-ford red engine paints.
If original orange red is the desired color , the Valspar tractor & implement-ford red and Rustoleum/engine--ford red engine paint makes the best combination. There is no visual difference in color between the two products.
If the original international harvestor deep violet red color as found on some 8Ns is the desired color the Rustoleum/farm equipment international red or Rustoleum, stops rust-regal red and Krylon/duplicolor-red engine enamel paint is the best combination. Again, there is no visual difference in color between the two products Rustoleum/stops rust/ regal red and Krylon//duplicolor red engine.
The Rustolem /stops rust-regal red color paint is identical in color to international harvestor red.
The Yenkin/Tractor Supply IH can also be used but this paint has a very long cure time. Note, the percent of violet in regal red is almost identical to international harvestor red.
Note, the color “Ford Red” as found in the automotive retail space is not intended to match the Ford tractor orange-red color. The color is intended to match the Ford color code that was used on Ford products, Lincoln, Mercury, Ford autos in the nineties and contains zero percent of yellow tint. The ford red color found with the tractor paints are intended to match the 8N and Jubilee tractors and contains a significant percent of yellow tint , which makes this paint color appear orange.
Appendix
The following is a list of the sample colors based on the color from the most orange shade of red to the most violet shade of red, using a spectrum analyzer to determine the percent of tint colors in each sample.
Adjacent to the color is the manufacturer and percent of tinting
For example 30/40/30 means the red color is composed of 30% red/40% violet/30% yellow.
The sum of the three tint percentages do not add to 100% , since there other trace mounts of other tint colors detected by the spectrum analyzer, not reported.
Ford red yenkin-majestic 35/37/25
*Ford red krylon/duplicolor /engine 55/38/0
*Ford red Rustoleum/engine 48/42/0
Cherry red rustoleum/stops rust 43/45/9
*Ford red krylon/VHT/engine 48/45/0
Apple red rustoleum/painters touch 31/47/20
Cherry red rustoleum/automotive 8/64/25
Ford red valspar /tractor 14/57/28
Sunrise red rustoeum/stops rust 14/62/24
Classic red krylon/rust protector 39/56/0
Red rustoleum acrylic 8/64/25
Cherry red krylon/duplicolor acrylic 31/66/0
*Red krylon/duplicolor/engine 0/69/26
Banner red krylon/acrylic 26/69/0
Regal rustoleum /stops rust 16/81/0
IH red rustoleum/farm 16/84/0
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